The 2026 Marketing Playbook | Sindhu Biswal on JOAL

The line you said, be consistent. That means bloody nothing. Most marketers learn marketing from textbooks. Degrees dropping is the most idiotic idea I feel for content creation. The person we have today has learned marketing by working with various top creators of the country like the likes of Raj Sharmani and Finance with Sharon. High tickets you cannot close by cold at all. High tickets have to be through referral. You cannot just go to an event also and close a high ticket. And has built an entire brand around providing services to branding, advertising, marketing, end-to-end consumer protection for your brand and identity. Let's say you leave everything and just start creating content. I don't think that's a great idea. Because tomorrow, an AI avatar can replace you. It doesn't matter. Bloody hell no. You should not have a 5-day plan. You should have a... Six month milestone to be achieved, definitely. Views are easy to crack right now. Trust is not. The moment AI keeps on scaling, views will be even easier to crack. Trust will not be. Today we have with us Mr. Sindhu. Welcome to our show. Thank you for having me. Thank you so much for being here. Please tell me the experience of what it was going through all of them and wanting to build your own platform today. Please talk about your journey because you wanted to be an astronaut initially. And how did you land up here? That's gone, Kapka. But thanks for having me, first of all. Super excited to be here. I don't know, honestly, I specifically don't know how BuzzLab will shape, where it will shape. I'm very clear that, okay, I want to build a media company. I'm building a media company. But the journey starts from, like, I have written serendipity as a word here because I generally believe in that soul. I wanted to be an astronaut because I was just fascinated by that. But I realized that, okay, I'm not a great person in mathematics. Oakesh in astrophysics, definitely not a good person in physics. So I said, okay, I'll drop it. Then I fell in love with music. And I happened to work. Do you play an instrument? I can arrange. I was in mixing mastering. My brain can arrange sounds pretty easily well. Basic, I know. Music theory, I know, very solid. So for three years, I was working in a local production house which is owned by Z. Okay. And I think that's how my base got stronger. In copywriting, in songwriting, in arrangement, in creative fields, etc. And I'm from Orissa, so I used to be there. Then I was like, I fell out of love in this creative field. So like when your hobby becomes your profession, there is some change that happens. Because in hobby world, you are doing things out of love. not out of a deadline. So I said, no, I'm not liking it anymore. I started liking the business aspect of it, the music business aspect of it. Okay. So I went to study MBA in media, specializing in film and music marketing. Oh, you did MBA in media and specialization in film? In music, films and digital PR. Oh, wow. From? Amity, this is 2015. Okay. And I didn't do a lot of research at all. You just went for it. I just went for it. I'm coming from a small town. Internet is not there. Whatever I saw, I just did. If you ask me, was it a good decision? Not really at all. But that even pushed me further to just be aware of whatever is happening in the incubator ecosystem. So IIT Delhi incubator used to be there. I used to be well connected with the founders and whatever they are doing. That's how I met a founder who was building a social networking app. This is 2016. I loved the idea. I'm a random guy. So if I feel something, I'll just go for it. I don't do a lot of calculation. I loved the idea. And then I just said, okay, hey, we'll just join your co-founder team. And we all started. And our investors were in Bombay. So that's how I moved from Noida to Bombay. Okay. And was co-building that. Had my high days. Had all of the high days where people in Taj know you. You're meeting the top shots of the world and all. And then we were not able to work out. Okay. On that model. Okay. So everybody want to know today is it's the world of AI. It's the world of machine learning. It's the world of computer science. And you are the face of it because branding matters so much in today's world. Branding, advertising, marketing, budgeting. And you've built an entire legacy around it because of not just textbooks and books and a degree you've learned from experience and skills and that matters a lot in today's world actually looking at it how did you end up getting into an idea or you know getting into into your head saying that okay this is what i want to do after going through my bachelor's and master's what i'm doing today is not allowing aligning with my degree right so When did you realize this is what I want to do? This is what I like? What was that shift that happened? And can you also tell us how did you get into or how did you get into working with the big names like Finance with Sharon or Raj Shamani or even Filter Copy for that matter of fact? I think I have not found out what I want to do and I think that is my superpower. Yeah, actually I feel when a human doesn't actually know what he wants to know. Yeah, yeah. Then you chase more. You keep going, you go, go and yes, exactly. Yeah. So that's exactly what has happened. I agree with you. I have to agree with you. Dropped my first company, joined Paytm Insider because that happened. Okay. Paytm Insider is now called Listed by Zomato. Right. I started writing about it on LinkedIn. That's how FilterCopy's parent company, Pocket Asus founder. recognize me this was back in 2018 2018 you started your script writing and everything 2018 I started writing on LinkedIn which is very early days of personal branding no one used to write right nobody knew yes so he asked me for a cup of coffee we met he liked my ideas that's how I joined then I left Twitter copy moved to Bombay sorry moved to Bangalore joined a Y combinator bad dating company called Better Half okay then joined Jupiter which is a frintech so these are different different companies Just out of curiosity, one thing has led to another. And then when Raj was looking for someone in YouTube who can help his team. He had also just started out, I feel. He had started, he was in his mid-peak. There are not enough people in India who genuinely understand content at scale. Zero to one, there are enough people at this point of time. Not at scale. And the scale people will be on XFilterCopy, XTV, AFX, BuzzFeed and all. And you have hardly 10-15 people available in India. So just constantly being on it just happened that. Then Sharon reached out when he was launching 1% Club. I was just helping him. My contribution is what 5-10% but decent enough contributions at that point of time. And I think it's just a constant curiosity. And then BuzzLab I just happened because I thought that hey there are enough people to solve production. There are very few people to solve distribution, packaging, the science aspect of it. Like for an example, let's say if you start, like starting a podcast episode number one is the easiest. What do you do after that? I shot a three hour podcast. Should I upload a 40 minute hour? Should I upload one hour? Should I upload two hour podcast? What will be my title? What will be my packaging? I uploaded my views are not coming, but in the first episode, 20,000 rupees. How will I make sense of the money? These are legit questions that creators ask and also brands ask. So these problems are for brands as well, creators as well. So I said that, hey, there are great companies to solve production. Let me not fight for that. I will partner with production companies and help them. Okay. But my core understanding is the science, the brain, the strategy aspect of it. Right. Now, you spoke about brands and then you spoke about creators. Yeah. Do you differentiate them or do you consider them as one? And if you consider them as one, why do you consider them as one? Because I feel in today's world, not in today's world, this is, this has been like forever. There are just two types of businesses. One is a product-based business. One is a service-based business. It's understood. You don't have to go through anything to understand this. A person who you go and buy a product from is selling a product to you. If you receive a service like a medical service or a fitness service or physiotherapy, for example, you're receiving a service. When it comes to product, people look at branding, right? When you look at a service, you look at the name behind who's providing the service. Right? Right. So how do you help people when it comes to creators and when it comes to brands? So let me first differentiate that and it is not an easy difference. A creator can be a brand provided they do what a brand does. I'll specify. Finance with Sharon used to be a creator brand. Yes. I've been following from the start from 2020. Correct. Now there are pros and cons of that. If he... unfortunately suffers from illness tomorrow, then one month content is blocked. Because he cannot come and shoot. So he is the brand. Because he is the brand. When he launches a one person club, he launches a brand. That is the core difference. So not all creators are a brand. And not all creators can launch a brand. There are two different philosophies. So it's a niche you're saying. No, it's the philosophy of how a brand is built. Again another example, food farmer, one YouTube page is a creator. He became big, he became a brand. Food farmer launching a protein brand if that protein brand can exist without his face is called a brand. Reliance is not like that tomorrow will die if the faces are gone. That's why they are called a brand. There was no creator, I don't know his name. He's a pilot, ex-pilot. Flying Beast. Yes, and he launched some protein brand. Yeah, he launched Rosier Foods, he launched a bunch of different things. He's also like all over, diversified completely. But here is a two different philosophy. When you are a creator, your page is you. Yes, correct. If you are taking a rest, your page is taking a rest as well. But when you are launching a brand, you are launching SOPs, you are launching legacy, you are planning, okay, how many people, etc, etc. Both are very different mindset. So these two cannot be together at all. They can never be together? They can never be together. Okay. Provided a creator has a sensibility to put a CEO. Provided the creator has a sensibility to take a back step and say, hey, I'm a great chief content officer. I need a CEO. I need a CFO. But will a creator do that? There are very few creators whose ego will allow. They want to be the face of that. Yes. Now your channel is the face of that, your brand is the face of that, you are probably killing the brand by itself. So if a creator can do, you need some maturity for that to happen. Should they do? Absolutely yes. Because you will age with time, you will have priorities, you will have kids, you will have family and all. And your time is something that will keep on decreasing. Now coming to a brand. The power of a brand is, the brand has all the money to take you as my brand ambassador and you be my face. If tomorrow the contract is gone, my brand still stays. Pepsi this year, Salman Khan. Right. Tomorrow no Salman Khan. Asa ne ki Pepsi sale goes down. Absolutely. Creator is different. But 99% brands associate with products only. Creators associate with services only. Not really. There are creators who have launched their product. Like for an example, your tech burner. Is that a myth? Okay. Your tech burner launched a watch. Your tech burner has launched overlays which is a t-shirt brand. Your tech burner has launched another one which layers if I'm not wrong which is a skin brand. He was first a creator. Correct. He became famous. Correct. And now he's into advertising, into branding. So the point is that it is creator's reasoning and decision that they want to launch a service or a product. That is up to them. If they launch a product. they will need a manufacturing unit, someone to solve it, etc., etc. Service is just easiest to launch. And hence, most of the creators launch service. Yeah. Correct. Right. But what I'm adding that as a caveat is, if your service is taken on your name, so for an example, in my case, BuzzLab can exist without me as well. But when a creator comes to me that, hey, I just want Sindhu, then I'm the blocker because I'm giving the service. If I'm not there, they will not take anyone else in this case. That's a point to note, guys. That's a point to note. But when I'm building BuzzLab, I'm not building it for creators. I'm building it for brands. When I'm building Sindhu, this is for creators. So I've segregated both of them. I know the pros and cons. You're a brand that helps brands grow. Correct. Wow. That's a niche. That's a pretty large niche as well. That's interesting. Tell me more about BuzzLab. What went into building BuzzLab and how did you start BuzzLab and also talk about the name because it's a very funky name. So when I used to be with Pocket Asus, I used to admire BuzzFeed a lot because BuzzFeed was the only company that I was aware of and I'm still aware of. BuzzFeed. BuzzFeed. Okay. They're the largest content media company in the world also listed in US talk exchange if I'm not wrong. And there if you go and type BuzzFeed growth, you will see that they are one of the rarest and one of the first companies who built a media company on base of data science. I'll just simplify. They will never put out a video if that video has no data point that this kind of joke works at some point of time. That's how pocket is this culture was built and that's how I was got into the picture. I was responsible for growing filter copy, dice media, gobble, launch two new channels called nutshell and jambo. and also handle loco these were different different channels okay and I was handling the growth team of it so all the all the movie launches web series launches not movie but web series launches and all the scale was done by my team and it has just stuck with me that hey if I ever build a company it will be around BuzzFeed it will be the culture will be around BuzzFeed okay sorry to interrupt you you spoke about growth so for big brands or for brands who are starting out What is the definition of growth? Growth in terms of balance sheet or growth in terms of scale or reach? That's a good question. I'll just simplify. So growth as a function or a culture was not existing in India. This has come from Silicon Valley culture. So your meta or which used to be called as Facebook and all other companies had a role called growth marketing, growth engineering. This was never in India. India always had a marketing team, digital marketing team, etc. Very basic. What the US and Silicon Valley said that, hey, growth is a pirate funnel framework. So there is a terminology called pirate funnel framework, which is called AAARRR. If I have to simplify, basically beforehand in India, the marketer's job was that you will solve awareness. Awareness in the sense getting to know about the brand. Getting to know about the brand. Exactly. Marketers were not responsible for getting the app download. Making sure app is also getting registered user. Traditional marketing. Correct. After the user has registered, make the user take an action on the app. Then make the user pay a payment. Then make the user retain on the app. Then make a user repeat on the app. this whole funnel was missing okay i'm an end user of neo neo dcb i mean it's it's a collab neo and dcb back and they have a forex card i mean you guys are getting free marketing so might as well take it now because i'm i'm very happy with what i'm receiving at this point of time so this person the agent i don't know what you call them he came to my house doorstep he opened the card in front of me everything for me because you spoke about end-to-end and this is what brands are doing today. DCB Bank wouldn't do it. It's NIO who's taking the initiative and doing this. I think it's a beautiful example. So basically what could have happened in the back end is the growth team might have put these agents to do that particular action so that in their P&L or in their Excel sheet, it is not looking that you have just installed the app. The person has come to your house and completed the whole step. So now it's looking that you are a confirmed user. This is the growth functionality. This came to India. And every team has their own philosophy. So a dating company has a philosophy of scaling male to female ratio in a certain area. A fintech company has a different thing, different thing. But essentially, it's a full funnel marketing. That's what the simplification is around growth. Growth in content is different. What I was talking about is growth in product. Right. Growth in content is how do you Take product philosophies of growth and put it into content. Should I upload a content tomorrow around finance or should I upload content tomorrow around geography? Who will decide that? What is the data model to decide that? What is the logic and reasoning model to decide that? How a thumbnail should be created? If you have ever done YouTube, you will see YouTube analytics. Right. It's a tool. Right. YouTube analytics is very rich, very rich and very in-depth data. No creator I have seen making actual sense out of it. Now, how do you use those data to take an action or to take a decision? Should I zoom in my image in my thumbnail or should I not? Should I use a blue color or not? Should I look into the camera or should I look right? This is called the growth culture in content. in content in content but that also has to translate into balance sheet also right because now we come to the third part yeah so abhi tak what we were talking about there is what's zaruri hai so again i'll just go back to that funnel i was talking about right there is awareness activation and then there is something i forgot revenue referral and repeat user which is what there is revenue-led growth there is activation-led growth there is awareness-led growth whenever we are talking about revenue-led growth There is a different team. It's called a monetization team. If you are a content creator, you might have your manager whose job is to make sense of content to commerce. I invested this much amount of money in production. This many amount of views came out. How many deals I'm getting? Should I just do deals? Should I convert into a course? Should I launch an app? But if I launch an app, I will put more money. How will I recover that money? There is something called payback period, which is how many days or how many months you're taking to recover this money. And it can be with anyone. It can be with you folks as well. So let's say you did this podcast. You run this podcast for let's say six months. You have a certain production cost. Most of the creator miss, there is a cost called time cost as well. Which is if you would have invested this time in consulting someone, if you would have made 50,000, you technically made a minus 50 because you put time here. How are you recovering that as well? So you might say, hey, I'm running a parallel service agency somewhere else. I make 1 lakh profit there. I keep 50,000 in my pocket. 50,000 I rotate the cash and do this. Beautiful model. Right. But at least you should be aware that how am I making sense out of that. Majority of the creators, I have never seen a creator at scale making sense of that content to commerce or revenue just by YouTube AdSense. It doesn't work. You might be making some 300 million but your YouTube AdSense will be sitting at what 5 lakhs. 6 lakh and it depends on the format. Podcasters will make more money because the length is more. Okay. Your length is short, you will make less money. That is how YouTube works. But Instagram doesn't work that way. Instagram is even bad, I would say. Instagram, a YouTube brand deal is technically a higher price than an Instagram deal. But Instagram, you might charge for your lifestyle. I might look fashionable. I might get a watch company to do me. But I might not get it for YouTube. I feel Instagram, is also for people who are already famous for them it works out not really Instagram is changing right now I can show you 500 creators with my team excel sheet they are 10k followers but doing 50k 60k views setting with a brand deal average of 20k 30k this was not before this was not happening before the algorithm has just shifted in the last one year that even if you have 5k followers you can still get 30k views you can still get 1 million views there are a lot of people like that what's the difference between okay getting views and followers what do brands see when it comes to a person's instagram profile whether his do they see his views or do they see his followers that's a great question and And why that? That is a good question, I'll just tell you. I have been grappling with this with a lot of brands. Yeah, I really want to know about this. Not only me, so many people, they see views. I mean, come on, man, follow. What's wrong in following? I'm getting 20, 30k views, but just click that follow button. No, I don't think that is the right way. I'll tell you what is happening and that is weird. Yeah, I really don't. In the last one year, Adam Mossery, who is the, I think, the steep road officer of Instagram, came on public and said that, hey, we are noticing a shift in the algorithm, which is, the followers and views have no correlation no correlation no correlation at all before what used to have if you have 5000 followers you will get a subset of that views 5000 followers 2000 views 10,000 followers 5000 views before that used to be there right now there is nothing he comes and states that I think all of you should be looking at cumulative views per month not just followers because even if you have followers Instagram will still push to non-followers And you can do this. That's what I've seen in the analytics. You have seen in the analytics. Which means if Instagram is constantly looking at non-followers and if it is not pushing to your followers, then there is no repeat. Okay. Correct. If there is no repeat, your expectation for getting a follow is also lesser. Right. Generally. Right. Now what is an interesting shift that is happening? What I'm noticing is all the entertainment category people, the chances of getting a follow has become lower. Okay. All the people who are doing extreme subject matter expertise content, the chances of getting a follow is higher. Why? I saw a content of Sindhu. I like his way of giving a point of view, let's say. I will go to his feed. I went to his feed. I saw that, okay, he just talks about creator economy, whatever, whatever. It makes sense to me. I'll hit a follow. Before it was separate. Before it was, I liked one content and I was just clicking on follow. Right now it is not that. Point number two. I think what is happening is beforehand as a viewer, you had five creators to follow, let's say. Right now you have 20,000 creators to follow. So you will be more conscious about who you're following. Right. Beforehand people were not doing this much. Everybody are creators. Because everybody are creators right now. Every Tom, Dick and Harry. Exactly. So now I think what is happening is we have to change the way we look at things. Absolutely. What brands are doing right now, I have noticed brands are divided into two parts. There are brands who want followers plus viewers. Then there are brands who are like, I don't care about followers. Views matter. I will check last five views average. If it is this much of threshold and if the money I'm paying is this much, they calculate something called CPV, which is cost per view. They will divide the amount they are giving it to you and how many average views you are getting. If the CPV is 0.5 lesser, your chances to get that deal is higher. This is the basic math of India at this point of time. Then there are brands who want 0.2 CPV. as well majority brands large brands want 0.2 to 0.3 cpv now what happens is in this conversion followers are not taking a place where followers come into consideration if I'm an AI brand launching an AI company I want you to let's say endorse me you are a 10k follower I don't want you to endorse me I'm a big brand I want a person with a high following endorse me so which means it's not just a viewership game as well Which means as a brand person, at that point of time, I might be looking at advocacy. Who is endorsing me? Then I'm paying that premium. So the reason I'm stating these nuances is it's not that simple because at this point of time, we are seeing an industry shift. I'll give you a third rare case scenario. I'm sitting at 65k or something like that. 65k or 63.5k, I don't recall. When I was a 20k follower, I was getting brand deals that a 100k will charge and the reason was people were not paying me for the view not for the followers people were paying me for the designation I carry right because you spoke about designation yeah I have this one very very strong question now there's a creator who started today 500 followers after a year or after 8 months his channel or sorry his Instagram page has around 60 to 70k. And he's been posting consistently and everything. And after he hit 70k, he starts posting videos on how to get to 70k. That also becomes famous. You get it. You get what I'm trying to ask. So before what was he posting? Before doing how to grow, what was he posting? Normal stuff. His daily life. So he used to be a lifestyle creator. Now he's a coach. Fitness. I've got, you know, he would have got two, three abs more. or workout, or high rocks. You get what I'm going to tell you, right? For you, Paige. So after 70 or 80K, he starts talking about himself on how he got to 80K. And a lot of creators are doing that today. And how do you differentiate yourself between them? I mean, even they are telling, okay, I'll tell you how to get to 80K. Pause consistently, pause consistently, because that's the keyword. first consistently but that's easy said than done yeah right now how do you actually differentiate between that what do you have to say should i speak on speak my analogy what i'm doing for myself or on the behalf of how people should both both i mean so i have see the point is i have always believed in one thing and a lot of people might not agree and it's fine because i also change i've changed my thought with time is Your pedigree in the initial years will be easy to collect because later when you age with time, it is harder for you to crack a company. It is very, very hard. Right. Because all the companies want Gen Z in their team and that's a great thing to do. But once you grow older, once you are 30 plus, it is harder to get into the same company. Now imagine you join a Google right now, let's say. For the whole life you are set. No one is going to take that designation away from you. I'm an ex-Googler, ex-Googler, ex-Googler. Let's see if you don't join that right now. Nothing wrong in that. You started your own agency, your own company, your own community. Nothing wrong. But you still will. So I call it the safety deposit, the fixed deposit. You don't have a fixed deposit right now. So when in 30s, when all the Googlers have become content creators, it will be harder for you to complete. Exactly. That's what I want to ask because everybody have like 100k, 60k, 70k and today they're teaching people how to get there. Exactly. I mean, it's easy to teach but it's difficult to do. 100%. And it'll be hard for you to compete because now when a person, like right now what is happening, the designation folks have not come in. Health creators were talking about health. Everybody are talking about health but they don't have like a... Like a backing. Exactly. Imagine all the doctors start talking about health. Yeah, exactly. Now it will be hard for you to compete. Absolutely. That's what I want to know. Now the point is, you can't compete without a pedigree that is 100% sure. You can't compete. Exactly. Just because you get a couple of abs or you've built a body, you can't actually go and be someone's physio or anything for a matter of fact. Exactly. You need to have a science-backed degree. I'm not talking about coaching or training. That's because he's gone through it. See, you cannot ask a fat man or how he's gotten a little, you know, with a lot of muscle or he's become fit. You can ask him how he's gotten fit. Right? Because he knows the journey of how he's gone from fat to fit. He'll know. So he can guide you. He can train you. And he'll also put it in his bio. Fat to fit. Transformation. 30 days. you've seen so many but you cannot ask him okay now I've got an injury here how do I stretch he'll of course he will tell you because YouTube is there Google is there he'll do that what's the science behind it like how how does that work like if I come to you and tell you look I have a back pain or some kind of back issue he'll be like okay come next session or give me some time like how does that work like how do people how can they do everything and anything when they're actually not backed by a particular no that's why that's why I was telling you right we are in the age of age where AI has defined that information or knowledge is a commodity right now if you want how to lose weight in six weeks you can get it from AI right the reason you would want to listen Let's say if I was a coach, you want to listen from Sindhu because you trust Sindhu's point of view. The reason you want to listen about it from let's say Dr. Shefali or a random fictitious character because you trust that person. When you are listening from someone, it is not the information you are trusting. It is the person who is giving that information you are seeking. Am I the only one who is simply telling that, hey, this is how you grow from zero to one? Not at all. this is how you crack thousand followers not at all there are 10,000 people who are saying that am I the only one who can claim that hey I have worked with 100 influencers 50 founders this that this that yes probably and hence you are not looking for again the same thing you are not looking for that information how to grow from 0 to 1000 you are looking from hey I want to listen to the person who has done that who has worked with these these people hence I should listen to that person this is the moat and once like jitana AI progress hoga it is gonna divide the market into two parts I feel the next wave is gonna be of only subject matter exports because knowledge is a commodity right now it's absolutely a commodity now let's say if I extrapolate your career graph after five years let's say you leave everything and just start creating content I don't think that's a great idea because tomorrow an AI avatar can replace you doesn't matter But let's say you are sitting at, for an example, let's say I'm not the right person to comment on this. But let's say after five years, you have five different, different research papers written. And then you are talking about that. Okay, this is how your body mobility works. I will listen to you 100%. And hence, that is a differentiating factor. So a friend of mine was telling this that views are easy to crack right now. Trust is not. The moment AI keeps on scaling, views will be even easier to crack. Trust will not be. So I would rather deploy my time more on trust. Views will come over time. So what do you feel about the word marketing? And how should brands utilize marketing? And also which industry do you feel requires the most marketing? I mean, everyone needs it. I don't... thing that a solar company will not need it or B2B company will not need it or anything else but I'll just simplify it and say that where it has gone you are shifting trends when I started my career digital was very new people were not catching up click marketing was very solid which is Google search SEOs and Google pay per click etc etc in 2020 content marketing used to be there CoinMarketing just picked up in 2023-4 and it will keep on picking up because right now you see a movement where making products and services have become easier. It has been commoditized. You have your emergent, this, that, Wix, etc. to launch, lovable to launch your web app, whatever you can. Now the commodity is the differentiating factor is the marketing factor. Like if all the AI agents. Exactly. So as a company, If I have to approach someone who should take care of my branding end-to-end, logos, design, websites, what should one look for in that particular person's service? So it's a vast question, but I'll just simplify what I feel in parts and I'll just try to articulate. I think not all founders are pro-marketing. There are some founders who are very cutthroat in financials, not the best guys to deal with. They are not meant and made for working with an agency. They will probably have a fight with an agency or a consultant when they start working. They should rather hire a CMO, fractional of someone who will then work with an agency because the founder is having no sensibilities to figure out marketing. So having that awareness is first, very important. that if I am not the best in finding a marketer or making that marketer work and it is the worst idea also that I gave money and the person will figure out. No, the person needs a brief as well. Now, if you say the person, hey, I don't have a brief, do go and figure out on yourself. Do you have that let go attitude that, hey, you can actually trust the person? So that is the first part, which is figuring out inwards which kind of a founder you are. If you are a founder who is pro-marketing, then it's fine. You can work with someone. Then comes a second layer. Working with a consultant, working with a freelancer, working with an advisor, working with an agency, doing it in-house. Either that is a cost reason. There are some founders who tell me that, hey, I don't want to have that cost internally because I don't want to have a very massive team. I want to have a lean team. There are some founders who are like, hey, I don't want to have this person on my CTC because this is a three-month project. The person will go away. Why do I need to... It's like a freelance. It's like a freelance. Why do I need to do a... larger thing then there are other founders who are like hey I would like to do window shopping if this doesn't work I have more options to keep on doing that these three traits as an agency person gives me an idea about three different traits of founders if I know the founder has like there is a classic question that I generally ask whenever I'm doing sales so is that when was your last agency and how many agencies have you changed and what duration have you changed Obviously, if you ask directly, the founder also knows that he will hide it. He will not give it. When was the last time you made a cold call? I don't do cold calls. No. I mean, initially, to start off, you would have... No. No? No. Actually, you never made any cold call? Any cold call. Zero. So, a lot of... Everything is inbound. I just announced on LinkedIn that, hey, I'm starting something. My first client was Akko. That's because of your background. Because of my background, etc. But also of my distribution. Distribution. Like, I'm what? 50k on LinkedIn? where 90% are founders and advisors, VCs, etc, etc. Okay. Yeah, I have never done a cold call. I have been through that phase where I'm anti cold calls. Now I'm comfortable not doing cold call, but doing cold outreach. So I might not do a call. I might do a LinkedIn comment, which is more nerdy. Then I will DM the person. I will say, hey, let's have a cup of coffee. So I have my own ways to do crack. What's one brand or creator or person you really want to create a brand around or work with and which you still haven't? Do you have anybody in mind? All the legacies. There is Coca-Cola, Starbucks, Pepsi. Okay, that's huge. You really want to do it with them. I want to do it with them. Second is I want to convince them to try the new formats, the new stuff. Right. the freshness like when coke studio came at that time someone convinced coke that hey you should get into music that was that time freshness there has been no other fresh rounds that has happened with the legacies I would like to attempt that and where do you see yourself in that path or in that journey nowhere I have not attempted anything I would say that is a fallback on my part I am too much consumed in already whatever I am doing I didn't have the time to go on that But this year I've taken a target, I would attempt something. And what's one most overrated marketing advice you've heard? The line you said, be consistent. That means bloody nothing. Yeah. So I'll just differentiate. The people confuse between high frequency with consistency. High frequency with consistency. So you can upload one piece of content every week. Kick-ass content every week. That is consistency. frequency is every day 4 every day 1 this is where the creators confuse now there are nuances to it that so there is a word in content called appointment viewing appointment viewing is basically let's say Rajshamani you have trained the audience that Monday Wednesday Friday or Tuesday whatever the cycle is I don't know at 8pm or at 7pm a podcast will come that is called appointment viewing you have You are keeping on constantly telling, this is TV. TV is 7pm. That is appointment viewing. That needs consistency. You want to keep on training the person. Okay, this time this person will do. This time this person will do. So it will be tattooed in the audience's mind. This will be tattooed in the audience's mind. This person, I like him. I want to follow. He's going to release one video. Exactly. Okay. That is a different kind of consistency. That's appointment viewing. That is a different kind of consistency. That's frequency you said. No. Frequency. You decide your own frequency. Okay. I can upload one piece of content every week. That's one piece of it. Okay. Keep on doing that is also consistent. Okay. I can upload five pieces of content every week. That's your version of consistency. Exactly. That is your version of consistency. And it's working for you. Correct. Right. And what works for you depends on what you want to do. Let's say I tomorrow start decide that I tomorrow decide that hey I will do long form high research content and I will upload every week. That is good. I will do short form every day. That is also good. This nuance is missing. Whenever a creator or a coach tells you that, hey, you should be concerned, ask them, tell me the definition. Should I upload every day? Should I upload twice? What is the length I should upload? What is the effort I should put in? Those are the follow-up questions that you should ask for you to get great clarity. Whatever, even if you're asking yourself, because you have heard from an Alex Hormuzi saying this, ask these questions and you will get an answer. That is my version of In Today's World. Just because someone has money and he's pretty, you know, he's pretty solid and he doesn't have any experience in branding, content creation, but he wants to start an agency of his own. Can he still start, hire people and still make money? I'll tell you it's tough at this point of time. Just as a sleeping investor, he just wants to start something? Very tough. It used to be easy. I see that it is becoming difficult and difficult. Okay, let's first define slipping investor is who? Either you are solving money or you're solving contacts. These two cases. At this point of time, if there is a smart person beforehand, everyone was like, okay, I need to start an agency. Right now people have multiple options. People can teach and do OPC, one-person company. People can do two-person company. People can launch an agency. No one needs a mandate that I need to have an investment to start something. People can start in their hometown, do remote, etc. background in terms of branding now the point is this that you still have to convince a supreme alpha who understands to work with you that is tough because that person will ask that hey are you only solving money for me like for example if me I have all the world access to take money from everyone what are the questions I keep on asking is this person giving me just money or giving me contacts into a market that I don't have contact this is like VC as well Founders, good founders have all access to all capital. Why VCs are investing money in media? Because the moat is not anymore just capital. The moat is contact. The moat is, hey, this VC has industry knowledge or not. When you see a shark tank, people are also fighting. You will see the counter like, hey, I have experience in D2C, hence you should take money from me. So it is not just the capital anymore. And hence my concept of sleeping investor has also changed. It's not pure sleeping. Yes, there are some territories where a sleeping investor might help. But again, coming back to the question, you can start an average agency. An average agency is you can make decent 5 lakhs, 6 lakhs money. But if you want an extraordinary like launch as a service, clipping as a service, data science as a service, very technical core. I don't think the game is just by taking capital from sleeping investor, giving a 20%, 10%, 5% equity or whatever. Because I don't. I can't imagine of any alpha superior founder giving that equity away just for money. I don't see that. Because if that person is alpha, he can get money from anywhere. He can get clients from anywhere. There is LinkedIn, media distribution, sales pipeline building is not a big deal anymore. It's easy. And again, I'm just clarifying. This disclaimer is only for the 1%, top 1% alphas. All the mid-tier people can keep on doing. Doesn't matter a lot. Right. if someone has to start out today in terms of marketing branding planning as an agency as an agency what is one advice that you would give them and that they can take off you so let's build tiers you need to have killer leadership team one is killer leadership there is no there is no second thoughts on that okay if you don't have killer leadership team in your full time get people give them equity, ref share on your board. There are agency owners who have reached out to me. They are like, I don't have a growth talent because I don't, I cannot give a 4 lakh per month thing. And they are also not willing to join with me. Sindhu, I want to give you equity and ref share. Can you please be on my sounding board? Okay. That's a great model. First is leadership. That is leadership. Second is if you cannot close full-time leadership, do advisory equity, do sounding board building. That is the second one. then the third one is building your own awareness around are you going after the high tickets or are you going after the mid tickets mid ticket building is different than high ticket high tickets you cannot close by cold at all high tickets have to be through referral you cannot just go to an event also and close a high ticket so I close high ticket via either a VC because I have given some value to a VC I might have taught at a session. So then I will double down on leadership coaching sessions. Then I will design a program. I will do only leadership coaching session and then whatever converts converts. It's a different way of building. So have that awareness. What are you going after? Small ticket, mid ticket, high ticket, clientele. And then accordingly make a plan. That is point number three. Point number four. Branding of your own is extremely important. So have the awareness that you are branding your founder or you are branding your agency. Those are two different things. I have learned it the hard way. Unfortunately, agencies are as good as the founder. That is the fact. It will take you one year, two year for your agency to be bigger than you. It will take time. Like, again, David Ogilvie is a bad example, but let's say Shabang. Harshal, you knew later. Shabang, you knew first. That has outgrown Harshal. For me, 90% of my clients know BuzzLab as Sindhu. Okay. Rest of the client know BuzzLab of my partner, of my co-founder. So it has not outgrown me yet. I am, my goal is how do I make it. But do you want it to outgrow you? I want it to outgrow and everyone wants it outgrow. Like no one starts an agency because they want to work more. Technically you start an agency because you want people to work and take care of that. And it's a different ballgame. It's a different ballgame. Every day when I wake up and when a client calls me, I have to take the decision that, hey, you take care of it. And it's a small, small habits where you have to protect. Like all founders have this itch that, hey, I have to be the protector of all the messes that I do. Because I was at one point of time, was a very solid craftsman that my craftsmanship still comes up. I can solve it better. I can solve it better. You have to control that itch. You have to train the people and leave them forward. That's how it will become a legacy, otherwise it will not. Got it. This is the fourth and last. In today's Indian mentality and the framework of how India is built over the past, a lot of creators in today's generation are between the age of 18, 17 to 23. 18 to 23, 17 to 23. Which is a prime time for them to get into a bachelor program. But because creators are getting brand deals and they're growing on social media. They're dropping out. Yes. I'm pretty sure you understood the question. Yeah, I understood the question. A lot of students do not want to pursue a degree. Right? But parents are parents. That's how India is built. They want their child to complete a degree. Right? Because they feel this is not something that is solid. This is not something that's going to last forever. What do you have to say to them? And even if you have to say anything to them, do you think this is the right age to do whatever they're doing? And even if it is the right age, how do you see this entire shift of students not pursuing their degree versus them only focusing on content creation? Or in fact, a lot of people quitting their job and focusing on branding and trying to build an entire... service around this particular scene in India so I'll articulate it with clarity with all responsibility and I'm very very sure about this thing that I don't think we are going we are going through a great age where mediocrity can exist anymore the divide is gonna be even bigger what do I mean by that again the same thing that you have let's say two hours after you come back from your office you open your phone in those two hours beforehand you used to consume let's say three creators now you are forced to consume 20 creators because the algorithm has pushed you so which means your allegiance or your respect or your recall value for the creators has already decreased and also your likeliness to start content creation on your own now this will keep on becoming bigger and bigger and bigger So what you will do when you have deficit of time, you will say that, hey, there are too many creators. I will only follow creators who have some background. I cannot take a random calls on any random creator doing this, doing that. So what will happen? The divide again became wider. The example we were giving you, if all doctors start creating content, they will wipe out the whole health. Creator economy has no decimation because doctors started creating content. The same goes for biotech, sports science people, etc, etc. Now, degrees dropping is the most idiotic idea I feel for content creation specifically. And it is not about degrees. I mean, you leave a degree, do a cohort. Fine. You leave a degree, do a certification. Fine. You leave a degree to join a startup. Fine. And why that is needed? Content creation is what? Basically, you having a point of view and telling it to the world. Where is your point of view coming from? It will come from some source of information. Information, knowledge. You cannot sleep and say, okay, tomorrow I'll put out this thing because I got it in my sleep. Everybody are thinking I have a lot of knowledge at my disposal. Knowledge is different than wisdom. Okay. Is different than information. Is different than fact. These are four different words and four different nuances. Today in the morning, I read about, let's say, Iran dispute. That is an information. That is not knowledge. I started researching about geopolitics, I got knowledge. I started researching about other aspects, I got wisdom. These three are different, different words. I should not be mistaken by that. A political defense strategist. has wisdom I will trust his judgment I will pay for the knowledge so okay industry always industry will never or has never paid a premium for information and it will never pay in fact specifically in the AI age it will never pay for the information right it is paying for the knowledge and wisdom because AI itself is providing the information because AI itself is providing the information you are not going and asking that okay hey Sindhu Should I do push-pull legs or should I do your, what is that, bro split, let's say. That information you will get. I will give you nuanced wisdom or knowledge or you will give nuanced knowledge or wisdom. Number one is, leaving a college is fine, but your information or your practice has to come from somewhere. Right. Join a startup. So college is not the villain here. The villain is you dropping everything, where is the source of information coming from? And you cannot tell me, I consume five podcasts and I build my content. I'll not trust you at all. That is point number one. Point number two is the safety net of building a career. Is content a career? Absolutely yes. But let's look at the larger picture. You are gonna live what 20 years you are. You are gonna live for what 80, 90. Can you genuinely put that in an excel sheet and the future looks bright? Like I'm scared. You never know. You never know. But I'm scared. So I would not leave my everything and then just do content creation at all. Point number two. Point number three. Let's be very sure content has multiple formats. I'll tell you my format. And so that everything makes sense. And even if I have a pedigree, I'm an ex-Jupiter, better half, there's that. The list goes on. 300 founders. I still have this. think that okay what if filter copy is not making sense to the new generation and hence I cannot put x filter copy and hence it is gone and hence I have to find a new pedigree and that that will happen obviously so what do I do next and hence for me to exist as a good guest in podcast I practice teaching in masters union XLRI this that right because it's a skill set do you teach I teach I teach okay I have like my teaching avatar is bigger than my creator avatar. Oh wow, okay. Let's get into that. It's a bigger one. So since I teach, my brain is constantly exercising the muscle and hence I can do a two-hour podcast. You can do a four-hour podcast and I will not be tired. My brain has the capacity and hence this is happening. Hence the teaching is happening. So everything is fueling each other. And hence, both are happening. If someone calls me for a motivational talk to a marketing team, I can still do that as well. These all things are content. This is more like an ADHD mindset. It's a boon. It's a boon. But why am I doing this? I'm not doing this. I have to just come and deliver. I'm doing this. I'm an artist. Because you like it. You like what you do. I like it. Also, I use this analogy of actors. If an actor has to shoot for, let's say a movie where he has to put six pack abs and do a stunt, they will practice stunt. They will not directly just go and say, I will just start. That is what I'm saying. If I have to deliver good quality and if someone is giving me money, okay, let it not be money. They're just paying for my travel bill. I can't directly wake up tomorrow and just go to college and deliver. It's a big responsibility to have to practice. that is what I'm talking about that if you genuinely think yourself as a content creator let's be honest about the quality that we need to deliver how do I increase my quality if I have to if I need to have the audacity to sit here and deliver something even if 200 people watch doesn't matter I need to be very very sure of the information I'm giving it to you well-versed well-verified well-verified well-versed and nobody can just comment okay this was jack shit being told that is the core I'm more interested in. Perfect. That's on point actually. Now we spoke about students quitting their degrees. Let's talk about people or people who have completed their degrees who have gotten into these MNCs quitting their job to create content. What do you feel about that? Do you think that person should quit his 9 to 5 to create content? So again I'm going back to the same thing. Quitting is not the villain. You quit, no problem. What do you do next? your source of information should come from somewhere. Because what I see today is people don't want to work under someone. They want to have their own leisure. That is being lazy ass. You respect Andrew Huberman podcast that does 300k. That guy is a researcher, still a practicing researcher. You respect Lex Friedman if I'm pronouncing it right. He's still a practicing researcher, if I'm not wrong, in Harvard, a neuroscientist, a physicist or something. You respect a Nikhil Kamath, a practicing founder. Even if he has decreased his time from zero, he has still started investing in foundry. You respect because he invests and hence what he will say is right. Helps other founders also. Helps other founders as well. Beer Bicep is not a random guy as well. He runs multiple companies, a media company. Hence, if he tells... me something about and I like no point of view on his hosting style I don't like it much but he runs a media company he can talk about how to build a team Raj runs a bigger team on media even if he talks about how to build a media team I will listen to him so even if these people have left a lot of things they still are practicing something so what I will not respect you have left a 9 to 5 job you sit in your house Individually, you create just a piece of content. Still fine. I will ask you, what do you read every day? Can you show me that? And then if your answer is no, I'm a chat GPT, nothing. That's not a long term career at all. Are you writing a research paper? Good, great. So quitting is not the villain again. What do you do at the rest of your time whenever you are creating content? Is the main core. So you've worked with different brands. over the course of your journey and you've transitioned into different roles too. So let me talk about two instances. You worked with FilterCopy and Payteam Insider. Can you tell the audience what did you actually get out of both of these and what were your roles in both these companies and how did you help them grow? I think they are much bigger than me so my team helped them grow but all of them are accidental hires if I'm not wrong. So I left my first company and then I was in a slightly bad phase where I was like, I'm a co-founder, founding member, etc, etc, leadership, trying to look for jobs. It was a big ego thing that I have let it go. But also I had this fear that hey, I think I don't know enough. And hence I need to learn from someone. That was the phase I was in. So I just got this offer from Insider.in which got rebranded to Paytm Insider because Paytm took them over, now called District by Zomato because Zomato took them over. And here all of this, all of the serendipity again makes sense because I have my background in music. They were looking for someone to handle music festivals, car marketing and they were not enough digital marketers back in those days. So my digital and music got made sense to them and they were like handle music festivals plus sports category. So sports category was IPL, Indian Super League, Pro Kabaddi League and I had zero interest in sport, like zero. So I was like, okay, I'll try and I'll see. My job was to handle music festivals, movies under PTM, so movies were what, Avengers and all and sports which was Pro Kabaddi League, Indian Super League, T20 matches and all. And to handle performance marketing, meta ads, Google ads, creatives, email marketing, etc, etc. And yeah, my job was to handle all of the things. In very simple words, if Aridit Singh is happening in Ahmedabad and there is 20% target that is given for the tickets to be sold to Paytm Insider, I have to achieve that 20% target by doing whatever marketing I can do. That was a target there. Paytm Insider. And filter copy. Then filter copy was an accidental hire. I was probably the only person who was talking about media science, how an event is promoted, what happens in an event, etc, etc. The founder called me for a cup of coffee and we were just having a chat and he said, hey, I want to build a growth role. I was an experimental hire. So he said, you just come, we'll see what happens. There was no hiring at all happening. So the job there was, he was like, I wanted to figure out the science of signs of virality. I wanted to figure out the SOP of web series marketing. The logic of what should be the length of a web series. How many episodes should be created? How should a trailer be cut? How many trailers should be cut? And I want you to challenge all the status quo. So my job was there that a brief was given from the founder was I'm giving you all authority to bypass all the senior execs of individual units of filter copy dice. and counter them with logic that hey they should be the point number one point number two to build a data logic arm of the science of thumbnail design science of joke science of comment scraping etc etc that was my target my broad target was how do you grow from 200 million views a month to 800 million views 900 million views a month that was the kind of role so hence it is difficult for me to explain that role also Because this is part data, part marketing, part digital, part product, part content marketing. Very complex thing to explain. If you had to tell your younger self one thing or one mistake that you did, what would it be? One mistake I did. One mistake that you did and you wouldn't want to do it, but it's a mistake and you learn from it. So what was that one mistake that happened to you and you learned a lot from it? I would rather say something else. I would have committed more mistakes. I should have. Because I'm a different breed. Every time I commit a mistake, it forces my mind to rectify it fast. And through the time of rectification, I learn. I think I've committed less mistakes. I should have committed more mistakes. Example, taking a fight with my boss, let's say. Quote under quote, let's say it is a mistake. Through the time you realize and you understand how should you talk, how should you be. So I should have taken more fights. I should have. taken more random decisions, more brash decisions. Okay. Hence, I love the Gen Z's. They will take a faster decision. Brash, not brash, I don't care. But they will take a decision faster. Decision is made and it's quick. And it's quick. Yes. You should not confuse your decision and glorify it as, hey, you are trying to be curious and the glorification is, hey, I cannot stick with something else. There is a very thin line there. Okay. So you should not, but I should have taken more faster decisions. And one advice you would give your younger self? Be more emotionally available. Increase your EQ. Why? I think I was very rational, which I should not. What that does is, you are not able to perform well as a team. You can perform well as a solo person, not as a team. Okay. That was your... drawback that was my drawback I still feel I have that drawback lesser but I still have that drawback okay yeah because you're more of a quick decision maker and when it comes to no I'm more I have lesser EQ higher IQ that that is a drawback and I feel with the team you need to consult a lot of your other team members also in order to make a decision 100% team dynamics is different team dynamics is as small as let's say I'm working with a designer and I have to deliver a thumbnail tomorrow I should be able to catch hold and see that hey you are feeling low today and a small instance as bhai thoda chai pe challe and me giving you a must chai and taking a walk fixes everything else this is EQ versus me coming and I'm looking at you and saying that okay you are having a bad day and saying the image kya hai why not get it you don't care you just want the work to be done that is not how teams function but you so you were saying you had to be more emotionally available I should have been but which you are now which I'm okay I'm okay not the best but yeah and if you have to look at what lies in store for you ahead do you have a goal or you're just nah right now we are in AI bro I don't think you can do any goal at all right now my only goal is the thing that happened yesterday I should be updated today that's it Claude launched co-work I am practicing right now. That is my only target. Claude launches something tomorrow. I should be. I am not aiming for. You can't. No one can predict anything at this point right now. Even if it is jobs. Even if it is jobs. I doubt. I doubt anyone. Any career. I think a career coach and career counselor. They need to adopt themselves. Versus giving advice. Okay, you should have a five-year plan. Bloody hell no. You should not have a five-year plan. You should have a six-month milestone to be achieved. Definitely. if you had to start a creator channel today based on the mistakes you've made because you spoke about mistakes what is one channel that you will choose today or one niche that you will choose today and follow through with it a new channel that I'm not doing right now yeah but you feel has a lot of potential I think I will do Insta and I will review all the ads, movies, songs, marketing, how it is done. So let's say Durandar comes out, I will just dissect how many trailer length, thumbnail, what are the marketing activities, who is the agency that is covering. Okay. No one is talking about it. No, you think that's a good 100%, 100%. Why? Number one is always remember, if world likes music, then you know, there will be something that will exist. If you are able to build a knowledge layer on top, it will work. Knowledge in isolation, no one wants to watch. Knowledge with entertainment, people want to watch. So if any format that covers both of them, they will love it. If I just do a textbook on how to promote movies, no one is interested. How Dhurander was promoted, people are interested. How this music was promoted, people are interested. How music is promoted, people are interested. That's exactly what I was telling one of my friend yesterday. the movies don't get that many views in fact the behind the scenes get more views than the movies exactly so you were saying you would get into breaking and dissect yeah I would be the largest and biggest channel about everything nerdy about music movies anything pop culture also because you have a degree in a backing also because I have the degree backing understanding insight it's time for a quick rapid fire Are you ready for the rapid fire? Yeah, go for it. Let's do a quick rapid fire. Creators or brands? The first question. To make more money or what? To make more money, of course. Brands. AI content or human creativity? Human. Why not today's AI boom? Not long term. Humans will make more money than AI. AI is underpriced. Paid ads or organic growth? As a business? Yes. Paid ads. Paid ads. Personal brand or company brand? Personal brand. LinkedIn? or Instagram for founders. LinkedIn. Why? LinkedIn and not Instagram. Instagram, no B2B is checking, no investor is checking, no customer is checking. It's just random people checking for you to be happy. LinkedIn is amazing. Even if you get less views, it will convert to something tangible. And you also mentioned personal brand over company brand, right? Why not company? Nobody cares about your company. Again, the same thing. People want to connect with the founder of the company versus you will see company pages not growing. Individual pages growing. Individual pages growing. To wrap up, if someone wants to get into this field or if someone wants to get into any of whatever we just spoke about through NR and as an influencer yourself and because you're very influential in this space, what is something, a solid advice or a principle that you'd ask them to follow in order to make, I mean, of course, make mistakes but learn from them? But in order to make little less mistakes, lesser mistakes. So what is one principle advice that you want? So let's break it down into three parts because we covered a lot of things. I'll talk about creators. I'll talk about people who want to launch an agency in anything media. Founders using media to grow their brand. Three different territories so that it becomes easier. If you want to be a creator, I think more rawness is needed. Point number one, point number two. Try to build personality over just subject matter. Meaning reading out a sentence is no more a trust building factor. Having a personality. Personality can be developed in small small things. The things you wear. I noticed your timepiece which is that? This is fossil. Looks really cool. Thanks, thanks, thanks. So yeah again for an example let's say if I have to wear this every time that is my identity. If I have to change my spec, that is my identity. Let's say if all the spec were in blue, Seth Gordon is in yellow. These are small, small identities that is thought through. Put a lot of things there. Point number three is the point of view that we spoke, which is try to merge a niche with entertainment and form an interesting thing that nobody else is doing. AI, everyone is talking. Top five tools that you should read or top five tools that you should try. Everyone is doing. There is no... creator persona there. I tried these tools and this happened. That is a personality piece coming out, a commentary coming out, etc. That is for creators. Have the awareness of building content to commerce theory. Get a consultant, get an advisor if you want. But you need a team for that. Then comes agency. Anything in media have to be very, very clear. Small ticket, mid ticket or high ticket. If you are doing high ticket, the game is different. If you're doing high ticket, probably start getting exposed more to the ecosystem. Make friends with VCs, make friends with founders, founders, key advisors, consultants, internal people, external people. Try to do a lot of teaching. Teaching is a great gateway to high ticket because that builds trust. Small ticket, do your cold sales, whatever you want. But figure out your niche, figure out your identity factor. Like for an example, I might be not the best in execution. I am the best in content let grow strategy. So my agency will be known that, okay, if anyone, a brand might reach out to me and tell me, I'll pay you the strategy fee. I have figured out a low cost agency to do production, work with them, figure out. If I start doing production, good, but I have to be aware I'm not the best in that. I'll be rather friends with the production house. I would rather form a cartel, five, six different, different people. We build a collective and we say we dominate this market. That is a different way of building an agency. So that is the media agency phase. You'll have to invest in your personal brand. 100%. There is no doubt in that. Like an agency is known by the founders or the co-founders. That is on the agency side. Then comes if anyone is building a career in this. This is an interesting shift. I think AI in marketing as a skill set is missing and founders are looking for that. If you can build a skill set, great. Technical know-how of YouTube missing in the market. can build, great, great opportunity. Technical know-how of the science aspect of media. There are enough people who can tell in the market that, hey, I know how to create content. There are less people who can say that, you tell me the brief, I will understand the brief and give you a content plan. Plan. Yes. There are two different skill sets. If you make great reels, that doesn't make you a great social media manager. Social media manager is a person who can understand a brand book, decode a brand, then make a reel. two different skill set. This is missing. So if you can build your skill set, understanding, exposure in that, you can have a career. These are three different things where I would say, like this is the only takeaway you should take from the podcast. So Sindhu, you've been with Practo, FilterCopy, Payteam Insider. You've worked with the likes of Raj Shramani and Finance with Sharon. All these are big names, big brands in today's world. In today's, you know, it's huge. You've built BuzzLab out of all of this. What's one common thing you've picked out of all these companies you've worked with and funneled it down to building BuzzLab? The conviction is the same. So, conviction? So, creators will lack conviction, brands will lack conviction in distribution. Content is easy to produce, distribution is hard. I'm only building a distribution company. That is the simple thing. If I can make a large company in distribution, great. Because I stand for distribution. My roles always have been distribution. That's all. That's all. If tomorrow distribution ke liya I need AI, I will implement. If tomorrow distribution ke liya I need tech, I will implement. So you'll say it's just conviction. Distribution. Conviction and distribution. Conviction and distribution is what has built Buzz Lab today. Correct. And which is also my identity. Also your identity. So no one knows me that, hey, I am the best person to tell you about camera tricks. No. I'm the best person to tell you if you use this camera tech, retention will increase. That is the difference. A DOP will give you what is cinematically well. I will tell you if that cinematic thing will increase retention or not. Will people share or not. That's all. That's the difference. And hence we both will coexist. Got it. Cool. I feel it was an amazing conversation. Very insightful. A lot to learn from you. I feel a lot to learn for the audience too from your growth and your journey. what to do and what not to do in today's creator space. Thank you so much for coming. Thank you for your time. And it was a lovely conversation. Thank you so much for having me.

In this episode of Journal of a Leader (JOAL), we dive deep into the world of growth marketing, content distribution, and the future of branding with Sindhu Biswal, the founder of BuzzLab.

Sindhu shares his fascinating journey from aspiring astronaut to a master of marketing science, having worked with top-tier creators and brands like Raj Shamani, Finance with Sharan, and Pocket Aces. We explore why "consistency" is often misunderstood, the critical difference between production and distribution, and how the "personal brand" is becoming the ultimate moat in the age of AI.

Whether you are a creator trying to scale or a founder building a legacy, this conversation provides a data-driven playbook for the 2026 marketing landscape.

This video is brought to you by VAYN Media.

Key Topics Discussed:
The Science of Distribution: Why making content is easy, but making it reach the right people is the real challenge.

The Post-Follower Era: Understanding why followers and views no longer correlate on platforms like Instagram.

Information vs. Wisdom: How to stay relevant when AI can commoditize knowledge instantly.

Building a Media Agency: The importance of choosing between small, mid, and high-ticket clients.

The Pedigree Advantage: Why "dropping out" for content creation might be a risky move without a source of wisdom.

Timestamps:
0:00 - Intro

0:49 - Sindhu’s journey: Music, MBAs, and serendipity

07:18 - Solving the "Distribution Problem" with BuzzLab

16:09 - The Growth Framework: Awareness vs. Activation

22:14 - Why Instagram followers don't matter as much as you think

31:26 - How to build trust in an AI-driven world

45:28 - Founder-led growth: Personal vs. Company branding

50:17 - Knowledge is a commodity; Wisdom is the moat

55:57 - The reality of the "Content Creator" career path

1:13:02 - One common thread: Conviction in distribution

Follow Sindhu Biswal: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sindhubiswal/

Subscribe to JOAL for more deep dives into the minds of India's top leaders and builders.

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