High Ticket Sales Discovery Made Simple

hello what's going on guys can everybody hear me beautiful what's what are you saying tats it's a small group today guys how you doing shantae can you hear me how you doing live very good how are you doing i'm good i've got live literally like front and center love it anybody else i don't know how i pinned you to be the first person here sweet well um guys it's going to be a small group because i've done like no promo for this whatsoever and i'm not letting my 100 followers go to my head i know we wanted to kind of keep it oh vanessa's trying to join there we go i know attach you're recovering from feeling like death so i'm probably not gonna call on you too much leave you thanks to shout out too much guys how's it going vanessa oh it's going well how's it going for you it's going well i'm uh i'm recovering from man flu but i'm being as enthusiastic as i possibly can for you guys because i'm excited for today oh it's a small group today guys um i've got a couple of things prepped i'd really like to kind of get to the bottom of what it is that you guys feel like you need the most help with genuinely um i couldn't think of anything worse than spending my saturday listening to me with a stuffy nose just lecture on about what i think is going to impress you guys um no need to kind of feel like i'm going to call you out to do any role plays or anything like that but if you wanted to just kind of unmute or just type in the chat what are the like top three things from your week this week or from the previous months that you have been closing if you've been on offers that you feel like there's just still a little bit of room for improvement with whether it's objection handling whether it's learning how to pre-handle said objections whether it's knowing what kind of tonality what kind of fourth wall breaking we should kind of focus on sales when it comes to the more psychological and subconscious side of sales whatever it is that you guys feel like you need help with give me some guidance as to where i should take us down this rabbit hole today so i would say that i've had a few interviews where they put you on the spot to do the role play and because i did a program like what she sells is very um specific and i think the discovery what uh what advice would you give with the discovery the ask questions and preempt um objections as in like if you were going into any role from like 30 000 feet above what does the blueprint look like to get any kind of customer to lean into that buying pocket is that what you mean yeah because personally for me i don't have experience in the remote closing so i feel like when i apply they ghost me or when i when people dm me on instagram and i tell them they're just like i don't know so i don't know so sometimes they put you on the spot and then they're like oh no this is not what we're looking for so i think and right now when i've been role playing i've been playing different scenarios like mindset like coaching um like something different besides sales because i want to put myself in that mindset where I already have that offer so a great mindset to have by the way um it's it seems a bit backwards for a lot of the gurus in the space because it's all like placement placement placement but at the end of the day I think Liv can speak to this more than most I'm not gonna call her too much but she works for closers and at the end of the day it's all about making sure that you are a fucking expert on what it is that you're selling before you're actually selling the kind of thing but Vanessa before I go off on a tangent if you had to give me I'm not gonna ask you what you're passionate about because you don't need to be too passionate about it like if you were to lean towards a certain kind of offer what could you see yourself spending six to ten hours a day selling without driving yourself crazy probably like amazon or e-commerce or a course for the mindset okay cool well i'll use the first two like amazon e-com like a biz op you know helping people just kind of make more money or get unstuck from what they're making at the moment sound sound all right yeah cool i'm gonna grab my whiteboard because you guys are gonna enjoy this so i actually did a workshop yes there's a whiteboard guys i know so i actually did a workshop on this about three months ago um this is just like the overview of how i've seen pretty much every single sales call since without big myself up here i got good right and like i've spent a lot of money on mentors that actually knew what they were talking about and i wasn't just winging it you've been through i'm going to speak to you directly vanessa because this one's mainly for you um you said you've been through she sells right i've i've never been through any of shelby's training i'm going to be honest with you so i can't really speak too much to it i've just seen the content that she's posted now there's other sales trainings that i've been through live will be familiar with this because it's probably one of the more powerful frameworks i've seen which is the belief ladder there's seven beliefs that we've got to either break or build depending on what end of the pendulum that belief is at in the moment to get the buyer to say yes pain doubt cost desire money support and trust if you are able to build all those beliefs technically the buyer's going to say yes now the difficult thing to kind of understand if you're just getting started which is why i'm not going to throw you into the deep end with the seven beliefs is you don't really know which buyer already has certain beliefs built prior to the call and which ones you need to build during the call as well and if you overthink it you're just going to drive yourself crazy going down a rabbit hole so i like to just simplify it to just three things any discovery i just want to focus on three things which is a desired outcome okay we can put that one over here so what's the desired outcome these guys are looking for okay what's the transformation we're trying to see and with any b2c offer with beat with like biz off as well whether it's fitness or bizarre i like to start by asking questions about the desired outcome it's less intrusive people don't feel like they're being sold to because you're just trying to pick on whatever problems or challenges they may have one of the first questions that i got taught when my sales training was to jump on a call and say so what's i guess the biggest challenge that you're facing right now and i don't know about you guys maybe it's just me feeling like i kind of know it all at the time i i just felt like even if i did have a challenge or a problem to speak about who the fuck is this stranger to start assuming i've a challenge you know and and straight away we're automatically in like fight or flight mode we'd fight in sales resistance and with my style of selling i always want to make it feel like there isn't a sale going on at all yeah the art of war sun zoo the greatest battle that the greatest victory is that which requires no battle like when you get off a sales call guys and it's like an objectionless piff and you kind of think to yourself you're like wait did i actually do anything there or like that is exactly how selling should feel if you feel like you're getting off a call and you're like like wiping sweat off your brow and you're feeling beat like you've got to go do some jumping jacks and before you get jump on your next call kind of thing that is not what selling should be it should really feel as smooth as just the buyer saying yes so straight away getting to a desired outcome is the first thing i like to talk about and we can dive into this like a little bit deeper later on but once we've got clarity on what the desired outcome is why it matters to them okay what impact that desired outcome is going to have on their future aka day-to-day changes okay and if you get really good you can start acting or asking who else that's going to impact as well yeah once you've probably got those three like why it matters what's going to change and if you kind of extend it and see who else like what ripple effect is this actually going to have on those that are around you you know if they've spoken a family their spouses yada yada yada who else is this going to impact make it bigger than just about that now once you've got those three with desired outcome i say that's pretty solid genuinely vanessa like start on that just get to understanding so what is the goal that we work what direction are you hoping to get closer to gotcha like so if you want to like open up a call for example here's like a word track you could use from like after you frame the call and you let them know like what's going to be happening be like so aside from like me just letting you know what it is that we might be able to do for you because there's a few different options what's at the top of your to-do list that you want to make sure we achieve today like it can literally be something as vague as that i like to be general i don't like to try and pinpoint a certain thing because it lets the prospect speak about the most important thing to them and even if they mention the most important things to them it's not necessarily something you can help them with we're all grown-ups here we can all go oh gotcha that sounds really cool i love that you're thinking about that but just so we can make best use of the time that i can help you with what about this and just kind of try and guide the conversation back to something that's in alignment with what you guys can help with you know yeah by the way talking about desired outcomes is the way i like to start it now the second thing that i like to it's kind of like a velvet slap i like i like giving people velvet slaps every now and then because you've got to bring them back down to earth so once you've spoken about all their goals and their desires you've got these guys dreaming a little bit right you want them in their feel goods right they're looking through life with rose tinted glasses because they're really going to start to be honest with you by the way guys when people talk about things that they want they overshare now the great way to just bring them back closer to the buying pocket because the more they dream the less they're going to buy we've got to remember that we've got to hype them up but the more they dream we've got to kind of bring them back down to earth a little bit okay quick little summary you know gotcha so if i'm on the same page we're working towards x because of y so that you can see does that make sense guys it's not just i want to make 10k it's i want to make 10k because you've been stuck scraping your bills together month to month only making five and you want to make sure that you can take your missus out for a nice dinner more often does that sound about right shitty example guys but you get the point we want to contextualize as we go, because when you say it out loud and you get them to agree, it makes it real. It's really small change a lot of people overlook, but it's super, super important that when we go through an important part of the call, you just leave a little breadcrumb. We're Hansel and Gretel-ing it here. We just want to make sure that we can pinpoint certain points of the call later on during our pitch or objection handling or the transition before we get to those two and doing little summaries of the important points is like that breadcrumb that makes it easy for the prospect to just get back to even and i'll take you down the rabbit hole here even fucking further want to get about quantum side of physics it's getting them back to the emotional state that you got them in when you ask them the first question even later on in the call when it's objection handling getting them back to the emotional state that we've gotten to with these questions okay so we do a little checkpoint and the velvet slap that i was talking about is now we talk about their current situation you can call it current situation you can call it emotional cost challenge pain problem whatever the fuck it's all the same thing it's about what is actually the reality i've let you dream for a little bit okay so this is where we're working towards because of x because of y you can see now how does that compare to our current day to day now when we zoom in or when we bring ourselves back to today what's different what needs to change what do we like what don't we like why don't we like it when i see you making notes i love it i'll slow down if you need it honestly just i will keep talking so just time out if you need me to kind of repeat some notes for you so how does that compare to our current day-to-day because at the end of the day we now want to identify what the gap is so if i go all the way back here that's where they want to go but this is where they are exactly now this is the question that with the amount of goddamn cool reviews that i do and it was always the first question that came to mind to me that i feel is really underused by a lot of reps and maybe it's just because like i'm not doing core reviews for fucking seasoned reps right like i'm sure they kind of know what they do it's kind of more more beginner reps that are coming to me and i think it's because a lot of people feel like they've got to be a lot smarter or seem like they assume a lot more of the correct answers from their prospects than they actually do which is what i tried to do and i sucked at it because i'm i'm i'm thick like i mean if you for those of you that don't know and this is vanessa by the way tats is my sister tachiana here that's on the call she um so this this this just shows how uh how much of a sales loser i am i've got no friends all i do is talk about sales i want to get my big sister to come support me on these calls no i'm just messing but no that's not true i'm actually learning from my little brother seeing as i just got into closing so props where props to do but yeah that's his but as a tax is my prodigy she's like my little uh literally she's taken care of so um i uh i always used to think that i needed to know everything i needed to like assume like oh oh yeah yeah gotcha like when a prospect gave me answers like visually kind of show them that i agree it's honestly one of the worst things you can do it's honestly one of the worst things you can do and i'll explain why in a very very quick and important point when someone's talking about their problems who who and how many people do you think that they've spoken to right whether it's about like their money problems whether it's fitness and their weight problems whether it's somebody running a business and you're doing like b2b consulting offers which is something i'm selling on at the moment i'm selling and helping out selling for an agency like these business owners they may talk to their partners about it like their business partners or their employees a little bit but it's never going to be to the depth that they truly want to have that conversation and that's in business that it's not personal right i can tell you it is very fucking personal in business but when you're talking to a middle-aged woman about her being 45 pounds overweight right or you're speaking to a family man at home who's got two kids middle-aged scraping his bill together can barely kind of pay his mortgage they've got no savings and he's talking about a life-changing opportunity for him to make more money and change his family's lives how many people do you really feel like he's had a truly deep conversation with about this because i can guarantee all of his closest friends and if he's a guy like there is no more shielded prospect that you can sell to an overweight guy trying to sell him on a fitness offer that has no financial roi to it he is so shielded he has had so many opportunities to have a conversation and chosen not to because it goes against the status quo it's not just with guys it's with women as well because like all all i mean i know for a fact i grew up in a house full of women you know my dad wasn't in the picture so i'm about as kind of female energy as they come guys like all the girls will get together you know i'll include myself we'll all we'll all get together you know we'll go for a dinner we'll talk about all the drama all the gossips that going on in our lives but we'll never get deeper than that surface level crust really if we're honest maybe to like our bestest girlfriends but realistically it always floats around that surface level and you always hear the same thing from the people you're speaking to which is ah i get it man that must be really tough you know that that reminds me of something that happened to me oh my god does that not boil your blood when you're having like a deep conversation with somebody and they're like oh yeah that reminds me of something that fucking impacted me and by the way now i'm not talking about you i'm talking about me like do you think that only happens to us or do you think that happens to fucking everybody now they're gagging to have this conversation with somebody but because the status quo is for you to appear more intelligent and more empathetic than what you truly are it takes away the limelight from somebody that's actually crying out for help and when we bring people back to the reality after talking about their desires and you go gotcha so that's what we're working towards because of x y so that you can see how does that compare to the day-to-day a question that is so underused is why is that a problem so many people get a challenge from prospect and just go ah gotcha like oh well i'm i'm 15 pounds off where i want to be you know i'm only making five grand instead of 20 you know and they go okay gotcha they move on to the next question the script you know that may be digging deeper but just ask them like aside from the obvious why is that a big enough problem for you to jump on the call and a lot of people over complicate it with really difficult word tracks but that is probably one of the most human aren't like responses to their answer to your question that's probably one of the most human and empathetic and non-biased by the way key emphasis non-biased guys probably one of the most non-biased ways that you can get someone to expand on their problem because you're not you're not putting words in their mouth you're not digging for something that isn't there yet if anything you moving on to the next question in the script is digging for something that isn't there maybe it's because i'm like i'm literally like a decade into my sales career right including retail sales but almost four years into my ticket career like i'm very comfortable on my calls guys but genuinely asking why something is a problem is probably one of the best things that you can do to appear as the expert not knowing but choosing not to assume it's letting other people kind of lean into it and expand is everybody following up until now thumbs up yes smiles beautiful so the current situation why is it a problem okay what is the impact it's having are some of the questions that we can ask you know bonus points who can give me probably one of the most important questions that we need to ask when quantifying a pain or a problem what's one of the first and more powerful questions that come to mind anybody on the call no wrong answers promise you i won't laugh but when someone's talking about their problem what do you think one of the most important questions it is that we need to ask before we move on from this stage of the discovery how long has this been a problem how long has this been a problem who would we want to get time quantifying challenges quantifying pain is in my opinion like top three most important things to do on a sales call because like this is where we get rid of a very big and overly common objection that people are still getting to this day which in fact is not an objection at all who can tell me what one of the most common objections that isn't even an objection actually is that could be solved by quantifying how long a problem has been a problem i need to think about it yes you guys are on fire today i need to think about it is not an objection guys you've heard this a million times before so i'm not going to go deeper than just saying that to it because you've probably seen tons of videos and trainings on it i need to think about is not an objection now even though quantifying time is very very important just leaving it at how long has something been going on for is like one of the laziest and lamest way to get to like a pain or a problem on a sales call because when we get to time and the longer the amount of time that somebody's been in pain the deeper their belief system is that that is their new normal the less time pardon the pun that we spend giving attention to the delay that they have consciously gone through before solving their problem right we need to to make sure that we're spending more time on this and this is these are questions that genuinely like when i've got onto an offer i've never seen a script with with these kind of questions on there and i don't know why because it seems like people are just trying to sell to like the superficial but at the end of the day it's not it's not the person that we're speaking to it's not the voice that's coming out of these prospects mouths that have been making their decisions for them this is probably going to confuse you guys or just let you in on like my marvelous pandora's box of how my brain works like everybody's got multiple voices that speak for them me more than most probably i'll admit to but like not every not everybody acts in their best interest but you've got to look very far and wide to find somebody that doesn't at least speak in their best interests you know so we've got to make sure that we're not just talking to the superficial official version of our prospects we've got to start talking to what's been going on in here you know I I want to speak to the really small version of you do you want to get in there we go let's touch back in the room please yeah if you ask politely there we go thanks I'm like hello I I always want to speak to I visualize a really small version of my prospects like a really tiny version of them that's just like sat on their shoulder that is so small you can barely hear them but that that is the real version of my prospect that's like gagging to get out and a lot of times when we're speaking to people that end up giving us think about it objections it's because we haven't challenged their previous status quo you know like even if someone's only been dealing with a problem for like three months like a lot of people would think oh that's not a long time you know i can't be too tough on them i can't be you know it's only been three months bitch that's a quarter of a year you know like three months is a long fucking time for for me as the responsible closer to be letting somebody else live with something that my solution would solve for them you know like a day is too fucking long you know like the best case scenario you want to plant a tree 20 years ago the second base time is you plant that seed today it's not tomorrow not in a week's time because you've been thinking about it for long enough you know so a question that is very underused as well this is turning into like a golden nuggets question of like undervalued questions you guys are going to be walking away like geez with this what went through people's minds when they've had the opportunity to fix this in the past you know what actually goes through people's minds when it came to deciding this in the first place a lot of people that we're going to speak to chances are it's them jumping on the call with us especially nowadays with the amount of high ticket offers that are like how many facebook ads have been run over the past decade people are probably going to have tried something before choosing us and i mean i'll let anybody kind of speak up to try and disagree with me but most of the time it's probably been things that are free or cheap affordable disposable expendable stuff like oh yeah i thought i'd give it a go just because like why not now they've made decisions in the past however big or small like i see that as a win as a sales rep genuinely even if they've just tried something that's free because i'm not focusing on just the financial side of things because i'm gonna sell to their belief system not their not their bank accounts at the end of the day so questions that i want to ask when i'm talking about their pain right and other avenues that we go down is like the impact of this pain how long it's been going on for which i don't say very well but then we're going to talk about past solutions and this is where we get to the emotional side of the call and like the actual cost side of the call which is going to be the third and final thing that we talk about but the way we lay ourselves up to talk about the emotional cost and what's going to happen if nothing changes so that we create urgency which is another way to just get rid of the think about it objection I'm going to act like you guys can read that with my syllable hand I see but the way we can talk about it is okay gotcha so over those those past three months what have we tried in order to fix this if anything now no one's ever tried nothing okay in my books I never let anybody tell me that oh no I've never really tried anything okay I used to rip it on a fitness offer mainly because it was middle-aged women maybe I found my demographic that worked really well maybe it was the accent who knows but I was ripping 65% close rates over that over the course of like six months on a $5,800 offer for six months like for six months of coaching I was ripping but one of the main things that I did will sell to people's belief systems in that they have already decided to do something about this it's not anything to do with the money so what i want to ask people is okay so what went through your mind when you decided to choose these options as opposed to others okay or if people are talking about having previous opportunities but then backing out is what went through your mind that made you feel like it was a better idea to hold off instead of step forward into that opportunity to do something about it i want people talking to me about their thought processes not just the decisions they made i want to get people to open up as to what was the fuel that actually made that decision start running this is where we get people talking about their opinions oh well maybe it sounds like an excuse this is where people really start to talk about the reasoning behind their decision making i'll see if i'll see a few reps using it nowadays does that make sense though guys are you following with where i'm going with this yeah yes what questions does anybody have for me who's actually here does anybody have any questions for me whatsoever vanessa none so far um oftentimes when i do role plays or anything like that they always emphasize to deal on the pain so how do you deal on the pain do you just keep them on a hell for long like when you ask them like why did you do this why do you feel this didn't work or do you see yourself in six months in the same position or how do you um deal in the pain because oftentimes for me even for me i've joined calls just for the fun of it um and i know i'm not gonna buy but i see how people deal with the pain and it's like i buy when i feel the pain i do the change because i'm like i cannot be here anymore i just can't yeah so there's a few different answers i can give you to that question um first of all like as much as i'd love to say that we can close everybody and i i still believe there is like some magical word tracked out there that we still haven't found that can just like close everybody like that that's at least what i'm searching for um but look if someone's coming to a call just for the sake of coming to a call and they don't they don't have a necessary amount of pain with their current situation or urgency then there's only so much that your questions can kind of get out of that you know so if you've got somebody like you that's jumping on a call just for the sake of jumping on a call you can dig for pain until the cows come home right the fat lady can start singing that they're not going to buy because like you did your perfect job following a process and doing what you can to expose said pain but sometimes it's not enough pain to get people to act so don't beat yourself up about that too much but when we're talking about people that actually have a problem if i were to ask you to for example do like a gentle step-by-step role play with me as to how you currently go after pain do you think it would help if i kind of stepped in and tag teamed as to the different directions i would go in yeah but i think i need to work on the discovery so i would be open to doing a role play but i don't know that's so funny how about i mean you you can put me on the spot if you want me to you can be you can be a prospect and i can act as you as as the sales rep if you'd like to just give me like uh an offer to sell like if you wanted to do fitness for example you can do a fitness offer if you wanted to be like a prospect then i can do that because that's like i mean to be honest fitness is probably the hardest thing to sell so if you wanted to like be a bit of a dick with me if you wanted to see how to handle that because there's no like financial roi i can hold on to then then we can do that one then you can just see how kind of i go outcome pain and what i consider to be enough pain so to speak um okay i mean i was a setter before in a fitness offer but i'm not a closer so that would be interesting yeah cool tax did you just raise your hand yeah i just wanted to ask if i could interject for one second just on vanessa's perspective because my offer is for clients that do not have pain so i just wanted to give a perspective on how we frame that so ours is more on a 20 methodology formulated 80 psychological basically like what tyler's talking about rather than so much focusing on pain we do hit on pain questions like what is your current situation how are you feeling are you happy in your day-to-day because if you were why are you on this call in the first place so we do get around that we get around more personal things like their spouses time with their family how old are their children now how old are their children going to be in 5 10 and 20 years and what is going to be expected from them and what is their phase of life going to be at each one of those milestone points and if they don't make a change now and they're still where they're at are they going to be happy with that with their potential future grandchildren uh uh you know health that they need to provide for do where do they want to be living do they want their kids will need to be paid for college things like that so when people don't have so much of an urgency pain currently their pain could be what their future looks like if nothing changes does that help you with that sense that's actually the point i'm very very just wanted to give that um perspective no you nailed it because um yeah there are some offers um and if anybody gets into b2b offers that's what i was gonna say that there's a lot of times where people i mean people are delusional guys let's be real and cut the like people could be drowning and all of a sudden they jump on a sales call and oh my god they're kings of the universe you know it's like i do just live your life through a zoom call i'm sure you'd be a lot happier you know but a lot of times there might not even be a problem then there might not be a pain like that that's that's the difference uh that's the difference while you'll hear me say like between pain and problem like there's always a problem but there's not always a pain you know so i kind of read what i said previously there's always a problem there isn't always necessarily a pain that comes with it and i always think of an analogy that i think i've got this from cole gordon funnily enough shout out is um is that there's like there's an old dog on a porch with like a farmer is like the owner and like once a week a postman comes and delivers a package you know like paychecks or payslips or something he walks up and like they'd be talking strike up a conversation that the postman and the old man not the dog obviously and the dog is just laying there on the porch and like every now and then he'd kind of sit up and like kind of howl or growl a little bit like as if he was in pain but then he just like lay back down again and the dog would do this every single time the postman came and the postman one day asked like dude what is it with the dog like i know he's old but what's going on does he need to get put down he's like no no he's fine he'll live for another 20 years the only thing is the old soddy he's probably laying down on a rusty nail on the porch and it's it's annoying but it doesn't hurt him enough to get up and move and that's like a very very powerful analogy for all of us to remember because i think all of us can give at least like put our hands up and say we can come up with at least one example of things that we don't like about our lives right and it could be something like really simple like the color that your walls are painted or something i'm talking something really silly you know but it's just become your new normal because it's not a big enough problems for you yeah there's tons of offers like that tons of a lot of i mean if your advertising is proper like if you're doing like a realist is your offer real estate tax what is your offer well agent infrepreneur aimed at real real estate aimed at realtors in america but they want to pivot from production into creating their own online brand to venture into the entrepreneur space perfect you know these are people that they've made some money you know they've made or at least like if your marketing funnel is doing enough doing well enough like these are people that have made some money so even if they do have a problem they are automatically going to compare themselves to the majority of broke people out there that are barely making their bills and they're going to say oh i'm doing really fucking well but in their world it's not doing very well whatsoever you know so we'll do this um tats you seem to have sparked up a little bit would you be the prospect for the role play because i want to Vanessa and then she'll have a chance to take some notes so she's not trying to do too many things at once does that sound like a plan okie dokie yeah i knew you i knew you're gonna hate me after this guys she's gonna text me like i told you before do not call on me but anyway it's what this is for should we record it for like a christmas card or something let's not that's hilarious this has already been uh this has already been recorded by the way guys so what are we doing it based around so we're gonna we're gonna do it based on it's it's a fitness offer um so that's something that vanessa is going to be familiar with from her setting days and you're just going to act as somebody who i mean clearly you're not overweight right you're a string bean like me but act as somebody who's like 15 20 kilos or pounds overweight and you just want to start seeing some seeing some changes and there's not going to be like any immediate pain i'm not going to dig into the pain like straight away down your throat what i'm going to try and create here vanessa is contrast i don't want to dig for a necessary pain and that might be an interesting perspective shift for you is i want to create contrast between where somebody's at and where they told me they really want to get through because that's that's where that's where incongruency is going to come from that's where the the buying pocket the people are in by the time they hand us their credit cards that's where they need to be is in that buying pocket so if we start things off like for example how i'd frame my first question on fitness core would be something like so like workouts and meal plans aside for a sec taps um between you know what's like the real the real outcome that you're currently working towards that you need a bit of help with well I've you know over the last few months I've kind of noticed that my clothes aren't fitting anymore I'm I've had to go up a size and I've noticed it in myself that I've put on a bit of weight and I've tried to lose it but nothing seems to be working at the moment gotcha what do you mean you've gone up you've gone up a size in my clothes I've noticed that i've the all the clothes in my wardrobe that i had i've had to replace over the last few months um um i had some personal stuff happened and i think that got me off track so i have put a bit of weight on and i've noticed that and i'm struggling to lose it gotcha we're gonna pause there because i don't know if anybody else saw what just happened there hopefully hopefully you did and again this isn't me bigging myself up guys but how basic basic of a question did i ask like how basic of a question did i actually ask that i got taps to lean in and give me more con which by the way you gave me gold i don't know if you're going easy on me but like there was some gold there like genuinely just my tonality with the first question there vanessa was what do you mean you know it could be something as obvious as going up a dress size for sake but how many people would have like just taken that as that's a pain gone up a dress size now she's told me she's replaced her whole wardrobe as well you know but then she also told me something else and these are things that a lot of people probably would have gone through especially if we're like at least i had it when i was selling to women or young ladies you know is they've probably gone through something you know a lot of women nowadays like they're kind of having to take time off from corporate work because it's just too much for them you know that's a personal thing could be a breakup you know that's where i was going oh i know it could be a breakup you know god forbid it could be a fucking death in the family you know that's like a very extreme one but as long as it's like yeah you know what i mean like as long as it's not like a parent or a spouse or something like that if it's like a distant kind of thing and it's created work stress anything like that that's just another anchor point that we can lean on especially if we're talking about fitness and i used to lean on this so much is like if you're using that as an excuse like even just the downtime like going through a breakup and not being able to handle what life throws at you again that is just something else we want to dig on you know when people bring up excuses i don't let them lean into it i'll probably let them kind of lean into a little bit at the start you know so i'm not jumping down people's throats but even when it's just down to again the decision making process you know something personal happened that's the kind of information i want okay so like if we go back into role play um you mentioned going up a dress size a question that you can ask guys if you wanted to get super specific is like okay gotcha when you say like go up is it just been one or are we talking it's been a couple like what were you before and what are you now so basically since I went past my teens I've always been the same size around a size four to six and now I'm struggling to feel comfortable in an eight I would lean more so to like a larger eight gotcha so and again guys quick little time out this oh sorry no that's fine that's perfect um but i'm just saying for vanessa like again don't be afraid to just summarize what people say one of the easiest ways for being a new rep just to make sure you're staying on track and you might think initially that you don't repeat fucking everything that people say like don't be a parrot right but just every like every like third or fourth sentence or question that you ask when you get to a bit of gold and you can sense like you got it in your gut everybody got that bullshit meter or kind of gold meter in their gut it's like oh if that was me that would be important you know so you just want to kind of again leave a breadcrumb do a quick little summary and gate and the way i would do it on that occasion would be okay gotcha so like for most of your life you've been more used to a four maybe a six a stretch but now now you're struggling to feel comfortable in an eight is that right yeah that's right no it's the tonality okay if you guys haven't noticed what was the first question that i asked it was an outcome based question desired outcome what's the outcome that you and i are working towards you know what's the outcome that you're currently wanting to work towards that you need a bit of help with you know if anything but what has what has tats automatically started talking about now you know so as as much as i can say that it's it's uh it's super important to focus on digging for pain sometimes if you ask the right questions it just comes out you know in that occasion when it's there people can't help but kind of compare it you know so gotcha i want to do this but or because I am now this now when it comes to what was the last thing the tat said so she's been struggling to kind of get to an eight gotcha so been struggling to feel comfortable in in an eight so you're feeling like a large eight no we could quantify um like the progress of how long it's kind of taken to get happy like okay gotcha like when's the last time that you were able to fit into something that was a size four i'd say probably at the beginning of the summer maybe like may time gotcha in may okay it wasn't too long ago we're talking more like four five six months aside from the obvious what do you feel might have contributed to going from a four in made to struggling to squeeze into an eight in october well i kind of know what it was i had a breakup with a long-term partner which affected me um i kind of checked out of life for a little bit and stopped focusing on myself and my health but i feel like at this point it's got out of control to the point that it's affecting my daily life now because i notice it every day really well lay up their tats but here's a cool question that we can ask from this point which is just another layering question it's another probing question i'm not taking any limelight i'm just biting the grenade or like throwing the tennis ball straight back at you because if someone's saying like it's impacting me it's impacting my work it's impacting my energy it could be impacting my confidence it doesn't need to be something too big but if someone mentions anything about an impact or noticing changes the immediate question i like to ask is oh interesting so what is the ripple effect that this is having on the rest of your day-to-day remember we're expanding that impact from back here ripple effect spilling over is like other like tactical language we want to use we want to use very visual language i like to paint a bit of of a word picture when I'm asking stuff so I'd ask Tats okay gotcha you're kind of noticing it elsewhere like would you mind if I asked you a bit of a personal question yes what ripple effects have you actually noticed that having on the rest of your day-to-day in the more recent months well I just feel less confident in myself I feel uncomfortable in my skin I don't feel like I want to be around people that I've known because I know that they're going to see a change um it's making me feel like I just want to stay inside um and not get out there which is then leading me to just want to eat more and drown my sorrows sorrows and I feel like I'm in a hamster wheel and nothing's getting any better and I can't seem to snap out of it beautiful quick time out because i like i like the stuff that's like there's a lot of people that are going to say stuff like this guys you know like not going out as much you know deciding to just kind of stay in and and maybe not not wear the kind of one i used to get all the time with fitness is like there's always a fucking pair of jeans like i felt like i almost needed to add the question into my script there's always a favorite i don't know what it is with you guys always a fucking favorite pair of jeans that you can no longer fit into you know and like there's always going to be something that changes and the question that i want to ask tats right now which is one that i was hinting at previously about the state of mind and the status quo is along the lines of i guess that kind of makes sense after she's kind of giving me i want to say that kind of makes sense but i'm still not sure on something like when you do reach and i'll give you guys a few example so when you do reach for that pair of denim jeans or when you when you did reach for that bikini or when you did reach for your car keys to go out and have a good time with your girlfriends but decided not to what did the voice in your head actually say to make you do that you know like or like for example you not feeling comfortable in your own skin or like not feeling comfortable wearing certain clothing doesn't mean you can't wear it okay that's another thing that a lot of closers will just assume is a question we don't need to have asked okay but what is it that you feel is most uncomfortable when you wear it because like it's not like you can't wear it right yeah do you want me to answer no no no I mean okay I was like let me slip back into it like for example I remember I remember one that I I got she ended up crying on the call and I'm not a meanie by the way guys I mean like it was good tears from um what was her name anyway lovely lady but I was talking to her and she was basically saying that she hasn't been able to wear a crop top in like two years and it's still there in her in her wardrobe and I asked her what what goes through your head when you're getting ready in the morning and you want to kind of because she mentioned i want to reach for the crop top i want to wear what goes through your mind when you reach but always want to put it back and she's like oh well like the am i ever going to fit into it again you know is it am i ever going to be able to feel like i felt in that shirt how do you believe you need to feel in order for that shirt not to wear you but you wear it can't think if you want to get really girly you know what changes do you believe you would need to see in your and this is me kind of going back into role play after let's say we've got a through a couple of probing questions i ask you so tat's kind of looking at where we want to be and where we are today what's the difference in the two versions of you that we would need to start to see some changes in today to know that we're working towards where you want to get to when you look at yourself in the mirror for example you know when you look at yourself in the mirror what are the immediate changes that you would like to see to know that we're on the right track as tats froze i mean tats and live froze that's convenient but anyway um that's the question that i would ask vanessa is essentially once we've got the goal once we're starting to get an idea of what the pain is you know okay so when we look at that version of you and we look at the version of you today what are the immediate changes that you would know you'd need to see to know that you're moving in the right direction that's where we start to get zoomed in on exactly what the changes we'd need to see right what's the problem what are the things that we need to start to see fixed for us to get any closer you know and again a question that i would ask if you want to write down some notes as to probing questions that we ask here is why that you know an example in fitness if i was speaking to ladies i'll be like okay gotcha so like it's all it's everybody's goal to always trim down and get leaner you know i want to get leaner i want to feel healthier i want to be a little bit stronger but mainly i want to be leaner i want to get as close to having abs as possible that's basically everybody in fitness okay gotcha so when we look at ourselves in the mirror and we look at ourselves kind of today compared to what we want to be where are the immediate changes that we need to start kind of working off like this this and this okay out of curiosity aside from the obvious what makes you say this this and this okay and if they give you a vague answer but i guess what friction is that causing in your day-to-day that you mentioned you're trying to kind of oh gotcha it's because my shirts don't fit nicely anymore you know it's because my like my roles are actually like hanging over my genes now when they should be in them okay i could have assumed that but i'm just probing gently childlike curiosity you know how can i actually get people to tell me what the truth is and it's just for that childlike curiosity now once we've kind of understood the pain are you following up until now though vanessa making sense yeah beautiful now when it comes about creating urgency because once we've got the desired outcome you know why we want it what are the changes we need to see to get there and we've spoken about the problem what impact that's having on us the next stage is to talk about past solutions and urgency you know and again this is still talking about the pain i don't like to move on from it you've got to contextualize it based on the problems that you've just spoken about at the end of the day so it's not about completely drifting away from pain it's just about making the pain urgent enough for them to do something about it so seeing as i think as taxa live their roommates so um i think their wi-fi probably just cut out which is kind of funny um so seeing as there's nobody else would you like to be the prospect and i'll take it slow just between you and i can't tie it that's back in the room oh there she is a wife i keep shopping i told you i knew it there we go apologies everybody we ruined the flow that's needs to makes more money to pay for her fucking wi-fi bill jesus right you came back just in the nick of time though because we're going to run through um how we get this pain and how we make it urgent okay i want to get rid of injections so i'm not going through the whole flow guys but once we've basically spoken about the design outcome okay why that's important what changes we're going to see once that's the case you know if the conversation makes sense brought it back to current situation what are the what what's what's different from the fucking version of ourselves that we're trying to become okay so what needs to change from that point why are those the things that you believe they need to change okay like like why is that the thing that's at the top of your to-do list i could assume but i want to hear it from you like aside from the obvious like why are those the main things that you're trying to fix you know what why is it getting back into your clothes what why is it being able to feel confident and stepping out with your friends why is that the kind of thing that's at the top of your to-do list tax and we'll just kind of jump in and give me a reason you know I I used to enjoy hanging out with my friends and and having a good time and having a bit of a social life and I feel like now I've turned a little bit well not a little bit hugely more into like a recluse and I I feel detached so being able to kind of get my spark back is it's kind of me getting my life back again because at the moment I feel like I'm I don't have my life yeah when when's the last time you felt like you had that spark back was it back then in May or you know things were going bad personally as mentioned for a little bit but it wasn't as bad as where I'm at now so I'd say in May there was still a version of me that was more likable than the one that i kind of faced today but still i want to be that person and and more i gotcha so at that point once you've got enough pain guys move on to past solutions so since may aside from like the personal stuff that you've had going on i'm not going to kind of take any power away from that tax obviously it's going to have some kind of hold over you and we don't need to talk about it if you don't want to but what have you managed to just try and do on your own since May to put yourself in whatever position you felt was strongest to keep taking that next step forward towards where you're trying to go yeah in all honesty I don't think that I have I think that that is where the issue lies is I've i i don't have any self-motivation to get out of this continuous cycle that i'm in at the moment i i just i don't have it in me but i know that where i'm at is not where i want to be so that's the kind of the help that i'm looking for i think perfect okay we're gonna pause there because what what i'll say earlier guys every a lot of people are going to say that they've never done anything they've never tried anything what that means if they is they've never got off their fucking asses to get uncomfortable enough to act on the thoughts that they have been having for god knows how long okay you would have to be brain dead for me a closer on the other side of the call to take you telling me that you've done nothing about this over the past four months and me believe you like you would have to be a vegetable on a hospital bed for me to believe you right and that ain't gonna happen touch wood but at the end of the day what i want to do now is i want to challenge that with tats because if i let her keep thinking that she's done nothing including not even think about fixing this she's gonna be far more likely to lean into the let me do more research let me just make sure like now's the right time um i need to sleep on it i need to think about it okay this is where i create that contrast not just in the results that she's not getting compared to where she wants to be but tension in the time that she's already been living with this problem so the way i would go about it in the way i'd challenge that i'd be like okay gotcha so you're telling me like it's just no steps have been have been taken since may like whatever you've had going on has just taken like full front and center of like your entire reality since then well obviously when that stuff happened I was feeling some way about myself so I did take some time to dwell on that but I feel that within that time period is when the I've let go of myself body wise so I mean don't get me wrong my friends have invited me you know to go and play paddle with them or go for a walk but I already don't feel comfortable so I don't want to be out in public looking the way that I do so I like I said I feel like I'm getting more and more closed in and the situation isn't going to get any better but I don't know how to how to put myself in a position where to to take that step because of how I look and I know that I need to I gotcha what makes you say that you know that you know that you need to vote because i'm not happy i'm not happy with with how my life is at the moment but i just can't seem to find that inner voice inside of me to give me the push to to get that jump start that i need i gotcha now attention this is where like in the next few questions is where i'm gonna create the most amount of urgency and and cost of inaction in this conversation and this is like right before i transition out discovery and go to like close is is going to be the next few questions that i ask is um so like with the context you just gave me it's like okay gotcha so is it safe to say like with everything that you've had going on you just decided to decided to try and kind of front the loads all on your own tasks or have you had somebody supporting you along this journey as well no no i've definitely done this i've definitely taken this all on myself for sure i gotcha and look i'm i'm gonna build them up a little bit i admire the mindset i i admire you wanting to handle this on your own and you know what people have done it in the past on their own so i can't blame you what went through your mind when when you decided to try and kind of of kind of just force yourself through this on your own instead of having a support system by the side of you what the my thoughts stayed as thoughts they didn't turn into any form of action and even on the times where I did think okay today might be the day where I might like sign up to a gym or ask a friend to go for a walk just that that feeling of looking at myself before i'm going to leave the house is always something that would that has stopped me so i need to find some way of having some level of support of something that maybe i could either start at home or i don't know but that's why i'm here i gotcha um i always like to ask permission before asking like deep questions like this i'll be like kind of hesitate like look off look like you're you're feeling uncomfortable you know it really sells it a little bit like can I um can I ask you like a really it's a really difficult question is that okay yeah sure are you sure I don't want you to get upset with me well if it's too much I just won't answer you can like laugh it off you know like but ask for permission be like just just based on how the past few months have played out with you trying to trying to get through this on your own and and look at least you've been thinking about it but not really getting far enough to to take the opportunity and run with it how can you honestly see the next few months playing out without that right support system and accountability to make sure that we don't just start and stop at a thought but we actually get moving and start acting on these thoughts as well to be honest i i really don't think that it can go on much longer because I'm already extremely unhappy with how I am now and if this then continues it's only going to snowball and I can already see that and I want to at least try and address it when I'm in a position where I can make a change in not too much of a significant time frame so that I have at least some level of motivation so to answer your question probably not that much longer because i i'm not living that's an answer that a lot of people will give us because they think it's what we want to hear but that still isn't good enough for me i'm going to be honest with you guys i'm going to keep my foot on my throat and either way when someone leans into me what am i going to do i'm going to lean out it's the buyer seller dance you know we're boogieing i'm not going to fill the space if tax has already filled it i'm going to step away to create the space for the conversation to go any further so with what she's just thrown at me i can go do you know what i hear that all the time but not many people really follow through what what makes you feel like you're going to be any different that's actually a really good question um another way to ask it by the way guys because sometimes that can be like a little bit of a that with tats and the energy she was giving me i know i could ask her and i think it's just because i know she's my sister that she's not gonna bite or claw my eyes out but another one you could say is but but but why though you know because do you know what it's not like hell's gonna freeze over if you don't do this and i i used to use this line all the goddamn time by the way guys like do you know what i'm gonna play devil's advocate a little bit you know and they're expecting me to go oh my god you're absolutely right yeah you need to move immediately because i'm trying to sell something to you i can be like but but you know what like it's not like hell's gonna freeze over you know and i guess everybody always says that they want to do this kind of stuff though i guess i guess what makes you feel like this time is different though tats you know that's me leaning out and i'm gonna get her to really sell me again and if someone says not much longer or i need to fix something asap there's nothing that frustrates me more than seeing a rep here someone say they want to fix something asap and take that as surface level i'm like oh my god you just missed a huge opportunity you know someone says like just a quick little side note once we've got someone to confirm so we'll kind of role play here before we wrap up but like if we play it out Tats it's not really like hell's gonna freeze over if you leave this be for another few months so I guess like what is it really that when you when you really look at the situation what do you feel is making you want to act on this today well I had worst summer of my life and i've already felt for several months and if i look or feel either the same or worse this time next year and missed yes another summer of feeling crap i that's unacceptable to me so that is the reason why i want to i need to do this beautiful one and final thing to do on this situation with tat specifically is just she said that she needed to do things a couple of times okay the way i like to just tie down that process is by asking her because this is going to work with most offers even if it's like a b2b done for you offer the business owner would need to make the decision and take ownership and accountability that the decision needed to be made but it applies just as equally as it would in fitness i'd be like okay so if i'm hearing you correctly it's been a pretty few months and not one that all boils down to you but at least it seems like that you're taking ownership for it and that's admirable i i tip my hat to that but between your night tasks whose choice is it whether next summer is a repeat of this one or it ends up being the summer where you feel like you finally got your spark back is it is it my choice is it is it anybody else's choice or is it is it yours it's mine it's mine between you and I do you feel like you're emotionally and mentally ready to get uncomfortable and start working towards that goal yeah because I spent the last five months feeling uncomfortable so at least this will give me a uncomfortable that will hopefully lead back to not just comfort but something better beautiful round of applause for that my lovely beautiful assistant well done but that final question is one that i've asked on and i can say every single sales call that i can remember that i've taken is if it's b2b don't ask on a b2b because they think you're all woo woo and full of shit right if you're speaking to a ceo but if you're speaking to just your average joe on the street um asking that final commitment question after the ownership is what i've found is just the nicest way to tie a bow in the ribbon and just wrap up the discovery conversation because at that stage now it's when we're transitioning to the pitch and this is where i kind of take the limelight from there but that final question to get that commitment from them it's just when you look at the conversation i just have with tats like how many goddamn layers and tie downs did i get from her based on the pain the impact her decision making how long it's been a problem and how much long as she's not willing to keep going plus the emotional decision making behind it that's where the phrase death by a thousand cuts come from you know it's it's never I say never I think there's a couple of sales calls that I can think of where the whole call was shit until I asked like one question and then like automatically I knew that I could just pitch immediately well that was the only thing I needed to do but most of the time it's it's about the little questions that we stack on top of each other that I mean silently back our prospects into a corner you know we can see people can point a finger at us and say it's manipulation I don't say it's manipulation because I know the only difference between me changing someone's life and me manipulating them negatively is my intentions and that's one thing we haven't really had a chance to speak about today I'd love the chance to speak about it with you guys is what's the actual subconscious side of sales that we need to be focusing on you know where my intentions come from and as long as doing with the betterment i've got vanessa front and center in front of me now like nodding away like as long as i'm doing it with with the sole intention to make sure that whatever i do is to take her closer to her goal of closing 10k a month in commissions on whatever offer she can then whatever benefit that's going to come from the conversation it's going to come to me as a result of doing so you know yeah but with with sales as you've seen from today the key is going to be curiosity guys you know those thousand cuts that are gonna eventually weaken the the survival mode of your prospects right it's gonna weaken the comfort zone of your prospects it's gonna come from those thousand cuts which the only cuts that we can give is our questions you know so it's not so much following a script it's listening and probing you know but if you guys stick to talking about a desired outcome contrasting it to current situation and then talk about what's going to happen if nothing changes based on the real evidence of what's already happened don't sell on the hypothetical future guys always sell on the truth and real data which is why i like to go back before i go forward when i'm talking about emotional cost of an action but as long as you focus on these three things we're going to be all solid what questions does anybody have for me before we wrap up because i've taken 10 minutes more of your time than i already expected to i mean i'm happy to stay as long as you want to stay i have nothing to do today but just uh work around different things but um my question is um i've heard that a lot of people when they're closer they're on different offers or how do you keep your calendar full how many offers are you on is this true because i was sold on a dream that you find an offer and you you're here you have control over your calendar and you make um you get on the calls and you close but now i'm hearing from other people that you need to be on three to four offers just to make it work so i know clarification you need a good offer you need a good offer you need to get a good offer you need something people want to buy is that like some do your research on the company but make sure you can sell it so something you're passionate you need a solution you need a solution that you like to a problem but make sure it's a good offer do the research they're not a new company they're older than a year check their revenue check talk to their sales team reach out to their reps see how it's like don't see how many leads they've got coming in how many closers they've actually got on the team already how many how many calls have they got on their calendar what is their average monthly closings there are enough offers out there to to kind of play the field and when you get good at it if you want you can then stack your offers but people stack offers when they have the skill set and they're actively closing because they know they can like so so just remember from which perspective someone is saying it when they're saying i'm on multiple offers nine times out of ten that is actually a choice yes in my opinion being on and i've not got anything against people that want to stack offers i mean i've literally ran sales teams with people that are like part time and they're doing something else on the side but it wasn't like multiple high ticket it was like the dude was doing door-to-door because it was during the summer and like selling solar door-to-door during the summer it's a wise choice to make especially in florida but um if you're on multiple offers it's um in my opinion that's that's a red flag yeah absolutely it it it's a red flag as as a closer because that tells me that it you don't really believe that the offers that you've got on aren't aren't strong enough and they're not they're not trustworthy enough to try and build like a full-time squad like this is the thing that has really dirtied the high ticket space which of course i'm not a guru by the way but that's like i'm still closing you know i'd take probably maybe maybe 15 calls a week so it's not that many it's like two to three a day on a good week but like i'm doing training and stuff like that but i'm still closing and the emphasis that i've seen with a lot of the space nowadays is because there are so many people that are being sold the same dream that you have which by the way it's not just a dream like i'm literally the stereotypical high ticket sales success story genuinely like i i'm not making hundreds of thousands of dollars a month but in august i made 34 grand in commissions you know like i needed to pay out a little bit to an assistant that was helping me kind of triage some of those calls i was like three grand but at the end of the day like that's what i made in august last month it was nowhere near that because i took half the course but at the end of the day you only get what you want to get when you're on a good offer and you are good at selling that offer and the only way you get good at selling that offer is by selling that offer not juggling between yeah yeah obsessed you need to be obsessed with it you need to love it yeah think is it think of it as a relationship like how would you find a friend how would you find a boyfriend how would you find like 100 when when you're talking about something and like jesus when i was selling fitness i i'd have like there was a day i had 11 calls scheduled on my calendar and this was this is about four months into selling the offer and like i i've got a fitness background as well so i knew what mattered to people so i could cut like 90 of the and just get straight to the goal like i was closing people in like 35 40 minutes but still when you're talking about something for like eight hours a day you you need to be an expert in it and it needs to be something you enjoy and something you are confident in you know and for me like even if it could be a great offer you feeling like you've got to split your time i think that's a weak link that we can fix by having a different conversation about something which would probably be like a limiting belief about the offer itself that you might have you know there might be like certain testimonials that you've seen that you're like oh that doesn't really fill me with too much confidence you know and um getting back to my original point um which the girls pretty much made a really good job of is you need to find a good offer uh the thing that's sucky is you've i know a lot of them you know like one of the ones that i can say i vouch for is tim chow i've done some work with tim i've i've i've ran um a launch that he had with some closers that we were hiring i helped him run it once and tim's probably one of the only guys that's like one of high ticket closer bros that actually has a pipeline of really healthy offers to get people on and the reason I say it's a pipeline of really healthy ones is because it's not always hiring if you ever get sold something by somebody and they say it's a list of companies and they just have like an apply here button and it's just an endless carousel of like group interviews and stuff like that that can pretty much tell me all it is that you need to know that they are churning through people on a crazy rate doesn't mean that you're not going to get really really sophisticated offers that have really efficient hiring processes but then again if you're a brand new rep without any experience we should also be very self-aware and understand that yes i've got the capability of being a great rep but if i was a business owner with a baby that i was growing you know that is fueling my entire lifestyle would i trust a beginner rep can i jump in please if you're if you're a founder if you're an owner that's your baby you love it you're looking for a closer you want someone to love that business as much as you that's why i emphasize you need to love what you do so if you for example if you've got a friend and she's got a company and you're like i love that so much she would love to have as your closer because you love it as much as her that's why you need to find the right offer for you doesn't matter how big the company it doesn't matter how much revenue they're generating how new they are if you know you can sell that product and you love that company as much as you will the offer is perfect for you simple as that yeah 100 percent nothing else really relevant yeah my boss that i work for he is amazing one of the top realtors in america helping realtors like i said pivot from production to getting their actual freedom he wants sole freedom for everybody make seven figures anywhere in the world and make it residual revenue that's what he wants for people and what I love about working for him is not only does he have a mind that is so into the future that he puts onto me when I meet with him and I learn so much but I've also learned that a lot of this of what he does is to actually better other people's lives I'm not I'm not actually selling these people something that I know deep down isn't going to help them I'm selling them something that if they put the six months in with us I've seen the proven results I know that it's real and I know that they can be literally changing their lives in six months from now if they just take that leap of faith and what I'm trying to learn with with my boss and with Colton is really emphasizing that psychological mind shift because that's what it is are you going to bet on yourself because what we have is going to make you better but are you going to put the work in because if you don't well the results are going to stay the same I could literally give you the golden goose of life and if you let it die and you don't do anything with it you don't nurture it it's going to give you nothing it's going to die with you you know so that is a really thing find someone that you admire or find a business that aligns with your with your core values something that you can connect to because if you are going to be speaking about something and and putting this passion onto somebody so they believe it too you need to have a little bit inside of you too like if someone asked me to sell fucking solar panels tomorrow no thanks like there's not a chance in hell I wouldn't have I wouldn't know bricks okay yeah labor no I don't know but I know what it's like to be in real estate because I did it for several years I know the grind I know the emotional time and what you have to leverage to even make any money so I understand that pain point but I've also understood that when real estate stopped working for me my brother got me into high ticket sales and i was in setter for a couple of years now i've gone on to this but i stayed in the real estate genre because that's what i like i like it so i still stayed into what i was doing physically but i moved it online but still within my passion parameter and there are thousands of offers out there for you to find something how do you like the offers though because i dm like creators and from my experience they try to sell me their course i don't know if i'm talking to their setter i'm talking to them yeah with them with dming creators it's um yeah it's a tough one dming creators is a tough one because as you just said it yourself vanessa like you you've probably been a setter in the dms before right i think i remember i remember you you mentioning this in the dms to me like yeah i'm like reaching out to people but i i think i might be speaking to their setters that's that's where landing a role in today's den age you either pay for um a ridiculously high quality sales coaching training um that is also going to cost you a very pretty penny for example like for me was cole gordon closes io back in the day and they've got pipelines of really trusted offers because they're a very reputable company another one could be jeremy miners any pq i know they do placement too um but the other way is is leveraging the network like that you have personally and that sounds a lot cooler than what i actually mean which is as you and i've been speaking already i believe in the dms like i know people that might be hiring but at the end of the day these are businesses that i've either worked on myself so i can vouch for them because i'm not a fucking masochist well i am but not that much of one that i'd put you through the same pain that i went through i promise you i'm not an arsehole um but it's going to be offers that i know for a factor established and that would be an opportunity for you to actually grow instead of one that you're just kind of paying 500 bucks a month for like a rolodex of really shitty startups that have probably burned through 50 reps that have a horrible onboarding process and live can speak to this the onboarding process for a new rep is probably one of the most important things for an offer for you to look at because that like your first how important first impressions right your first impression of that business as a new rep that's probably really fucking nervous and shitting themselves as to whether they're going to make money let alone represent the brand correctly you know if you don't have a business that's been through that in a way to nurture reps then you're just going to be left with a sour taste in your mouth as to whole like the whole high ticket sales industry you know live and i also got recruited via closers just letting you know all three of us um oh my god yeah tax is old fucking hell oh my god i never knew that oh my god i think you can do that as well you get a heart that is sick and we was doing it well anyway yeah anyway yeah i just wanted to say i digress i digress live and i also went up through closers dot io so i don't um again it's a rigorous uh interview process you have to make loom videos do this do that they spout things at you and you go through the interview process but there are ways to look into it i think well yeah i feel like a third wheel but i actually work for a company for more context on that one so yeah it's a process just look go and check out the website we don't they've actually shut the rca so you don't have to pay to get into the program anymore but it is more of a strenuous process because we do have to qualify you to vet you for our company but check it out there's loads of offers on there but still follow the same advice you don't have say yes to every opportunity so like my experience through closers was very different to tats i don't know tyler about yours very different to tatiana's i went through several several offers it just wasn't for me but i thought they was because it was something i was interested in it was like it was in health and wellness and then it went into like menopausal women like wellness retreats and yeah i'm very healthy i'm into my wellness but i couldn't sell it to people because i was like why are you not doing it already you have to pick something that you believe in it's like very very sure so that's a different thing going through like like what tyler highlighted coming through the big recruitment chains is fine but sometimes you don't always get the offers that feel comfortable for you so you have to move around a lot if you go out and do your own networking linkedin's great find coaches find people that you can trust do your research reach out to them is another way of doing it that's more comfortable for you try to close them out but stick to your guns to get a good offer first time stick to your guns and trust yourself honestly yeah because i feel like i've applied i'm in this program um and i've applied but i haven't received like no interviews like that or callbacks or anything and when i dm people which is what shelby suggests in her software that's basically where she has the list of creators and we just are you part of shelby's program yeah she's in she says are you part of the community Facebook community how long have you been a program I've been there almost a year it's gonna be a year in December so this is my other computer okay so there's obviously other people in there you're not obviously all learning to high ticket close right you're there's just people like the software where you're supposed to get the offer but it's like udm yeah but i'm saying to be part of her program what else are you paying for you're paying to be part of a school community are you paying to be part of a facebook community are you part of any kind of i just paid once i just paid once and i'm there like as long as i'm there um and she suggests like dming and sometimes they put offers in the program but there's like three thousand almost four thousand girls and i feel like i've applied and nothing and i'm not a person that's negative but it's like and a lot of people try to charge you money to get you in offers too it's kind of insane here so yeah it's an overtrusted process when they do again closers used to do it it's not it's not it's just vets because also you have to vet the companies you work with so you need to make sure they're willing to do the work to put in and they're trained and there it's part of the process you have to think both sides of it but definitely but if there's a school community group reach out to other coaches and so reach out other people are in there because they're in there to learn and work as well so they might not be reps they might be actual coaches setting up their own offer they're looking for reps do some like research on people in the group and then you have a free access into them yeah yeah well i've been dming people um like i said i've messaged like creators before and i even have a sales page now uh aside from my personal because i was like i want to have i have a separate and that way it looks a little bit more professional um and even now like people do like dm me but it's like they're looking for experience i was talking to this guy i think his name um on my dms he's for like from that poppy thing he was asking me for like sales reps and i told him straight up in his application he's like how much money have you closed it's and I told them to be honest I haven't closed like nothing but I did go through this program where we did break down the cough in the beginning all the way to the end and I'm willing to do a mock call with you and he just never replied don't tell him you've not closed just anything don't look if you could if you can back yourself to get yourself on a call get yourself on a call you're a seller treat it like this or seeing as your experience is in setting could you not go back seeing as we're setting you get your basic can you not go into a company that you can start off as a setter with the hope of progression i started with colton and four months in he was like i want you closing for me and then took me under his wing that's also an option you a bit of a safety net there as well you build a rapport with the company and you show them your intentions that you want to progress boom there you go as well yeah that's a slightly longer it's a slightly longer process but at least you're earning money in instead of sitting there and not getting any callbacks you know you've got experience as a setter use use your assets especially if it's a company that you can earn good comms at and even if you want you can progress in as well because you'll learn quite twice as quick setting to how to close it'll just be the next natural step yeah yeah from setting you'll go into discovery calls and then closing a triage and then you move on to the next one i'm i'm like that's what i do i set i'm an outbound setter so it's a slightly different role to a normal setter but um same progress i'm still learning how to sell to move on just with the company that i'm comfortable with so and i've only just gone what i'm looking for as well but i'm saying like there has been no luck yeah but um i keep trying it's so hard but just keep trying it sounds okay okay let tyler speak and so we can wrap it up because i need to go i've got two minutes yeah you're all good i'm heading to the gym shortly as well no but on that one look i i i have no idea what shelby's program or her software is like um i just know that shelby's a very very smart young lady and she has done uh an absolute fucking masterclass advertising herself she already had yeah because personally the whole dming a closing account that you have if you're a business owner and you're hiring somebody like it kind of makes sense for you to have like a closing profile and stuff but it really doesn't like it really doesn't make sense because that just means you're really good at looking for sales jobs instead of actually like being the closer if you make it you know so i personally haven't led into that one and i know for a fact that shelby's made a ton of money she has yeah and that's the reason why i started my personal brand because she does it and it's true if you want people to get to know you you need to advertise yourself like a maniac from um iman too which i love him um and shelby yeah it's just like they are masters of advertising but when we're talking about the problem that we're trying to solve which is getting you a job yeah it's not that advertising doesn't help us shorten the gap between like point a and point b and i think she became a victim of her own success when there was so many goddamn people that took her up on the offer of learning the thing that she got good at originally which was high ticket sales that now she exceeded the amount of demand with the supply that she had now created in the form of closing space and we're talking about the resources that she has which is a lot there's a lot of offers there but there's also a ton of you guys that are going after those offers it's about it's about again leveraging your own network and not just going through the mass application things because if you're going through the mass application things it means there's a lot of people that they're going through which means you are kind of a bit expendable you know that oh vanessa doesn't have this like great closing experience this person's been closing for a few months automatically they're going to go with that person you know but um i mean look keep your head up because you've kept it up more than most people have and i'm actually speaking to sammy later on today that i think i mentioned i was going to speak to um he's running three offers two of them are fitness one of them is a b2b offer connecting brands with influencers and creators for influencer marketing which might be an interesting one um but i'm speaking to him today to see if he's got any openings for interviews over the next week or so okay yeah thank you yeah i am keeping positive because i'm like i know this is possible um and so yeah i'm just keep applying and all of that but i don't know it's kind of hard this industry it is it is tough because it's getting competition there's a lot of competition um but if you if you get through i can tell you it's not a dream you've been sold it is a reality i promise you like what an offer that's performing well and you are good and you are confident and you have a routine that's working and you're pulling in that money you'll notice that it was worth it but at the moment i'm going to be the last person to say to you it's easy because it fucking sucks it's very tough you know i've been into this four years ago and it was hard then so i can't even begin to imagine how much competition there is nowadays you know but look just just know that the only thing that will guarantee that you don't get an offer is if you stop looking you know but i'm gonna i'm gonna help you look and we're gonna do our best to make sure you're ready for those interviews when they come thank you i appreciate the small group today it was good fun um i'm planning on doing this every week i'm not expecting to be here every week but i'll make sure it's a recurring invite and whenever you want to drop by drop by um but if not you guys know where to reach me on my closing with tyler instagram i'll speak to you thank you thank you bye

Discovery got hijacked.

Somewhere along the way, reps turned it into an interrogation. A checklist. A script they read off a screen while barely listening.

And then they wonder why prospects feel nothing by the time the pitch comes.

Here's what discovery actually is:
A conversation where you help someone see their situation more clearly than they could alone.

That's it.

You're not collecting data. You're not qualifying. You're not setting up your pitch.

You're leading someone from the surface of their problem down to the truth of it - until they feel it.

Until the gap between where they are and where they want to be becomes impossible to ignore.

Want to learn how to run discovery that actually moves people?
Join the free CloserOS community on Skool — real frameworks, call breakdowns, and a community of closers doing the work.
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