How to fix broken systems - Kate Tarling (CEO, The Service Group)

Kate Tarling, consultant, trainer, and author of The Service Organization, joins Lily and Randy to discuss what it takes to deliver great services inside large, complex organizations. The conversation covers the distinction between products and services, why transformation so often stalls, how to make the business case for change using existing investment, and how product people can contribute to — and benefit from — a more service-oriented way of working.

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Chapters
00:01:30 — Introduction and Kate's background
00:04:00 — Defining services vs. products
00:07:00 — Product organizations vs. service organizations
00:09:00 — Why service delivery is hard
00:11:30 — Transformation in practice: there is no magic process
00:13:30 — Starting with one area and cutting across silos
00:15:30 — Common mistakes organizations make
00:19:30 — Measuring progress and making the business case
00:22:30 — Redirecting existing investment: a UK government example
00:25:00 — Triage functions and portfolio management
00:26:00 — How product people can contribute in service organizations
00:30:30 — Kate's 12 principles
00:34:00 — Summary
00:37:00 — Examples of good service organizations


Key Takeaways
— Services and products overlap, but aren't the same. Products are delineated things sold or used for a specific purpose. Services encompass everything involved in an end-to-end delivery — technology, staff, third-party systems, legacy infrastructure, and more. Most large organizations operate in a messier reality than a pure product model.
— The status quo is not a safe, neutral option. One of the most common organizational mistakes is treating transformation as the risky path and inaction as the safe one. The cost of not changing — in duplication, slowness, and missed outcomes — is real and often invisible.
— Start with one area, not the whole organization. Rather than attempting a wholesale transformation, pick a service area that cuts across functions and learn from it. Progress made there can then be applied more broadly.
— Transformation requires genuine willingness to change structures and power. Leadership that endorses change in principle but resists relinquishing budget control or functional authority is a common blocker. Real transformation means something shifts — including who decides what.
— 80% of progress can come from redirecting existing investment. Most large organizations already have significant transformation spend. Mapping that investment against services — in plain English — reveals duplication, gaps, and misalignment. A triage function for new requests helps prevent the problem from compounding.
— Product people are well-placed to help organizations see themselves from the outside in. Mapping products to services, identifying team types, and making the case for multidisciplinary leadership across a whole service are practical contributions product people can make in service-led environments.
— There is no ideal process — but there are conditions. Rather than installing a framework, focus on understanding the conditions your organization creates for its teams: how decisions get made, how work gets initiated, who has visibility across the whole, and whether trade-offs are being acknowledged.


Featured Links
The Service Organization by Kate Tarling — katearling.com
Team Topologies by Matthew Skelton and Manuel Pais — teamtopologies.com
Mailtrap email delivery platform — mailtrap.io